Brad Wright came in with a notion: We follow our team on a seemingly typical day on Atlantis except things are not quite right. Ultimately, our heroes discover that they are not on the real Atlantis - and that they’re not even our heroes. They’re replicators who, over the course of the story, uncover the mystery of their creation and ultimately turn on their creators (Oberoth and co.), sacrificing themselves in the process.
We started spinning. While we loved the idea of the repli-heroes sacrificing themselves on a duplicate Atlantis, the fact that the story wouldn’t influence the real Atlantis in any way was problematic. Besides, Paul argued, the fun of doing duplicates is in having them meet themselves. So we decided that the mystery and discovery of their true identities should only be half the story. The other hand needed to involve the real team. Then, we had to decide why the Asurans had created these duplicates. The notion that Oberoth had created them as a means of studying their behavior in order to use this information against them just felt like a door in that wouldn’t have anything to do with the ensuing story. But what if…we had already hinted that some of the human-form replicators had always aspired to be much more than mere duplicates (remember Fifth? Reese?). They paradoxically desired and resented what the descendants of their creators (the Ancients) possessed: humanity, the ability to ascend. It made more sense to assume that this is what they were after. Yet it would stand to reason that not all of the Asurans would seek to become “almost human“. The majority, like Oberoth, would wish to destroy any threat to their unique nature. We created a schism within the ranks of the replicators (Could it be argued that Weir’s humanity, once integrated into the collective, may have exercised an almost virus-like influence, giving rise to this more human, sympathetic faction? Perhaps.) and, so decided, started breaking the story.
To those who say “Hey, this is too much like this episode!” or “This is too much like that episode!” my counter would be “Name me an episode of science fiction that isn’t in some way like something that has come before.”. Alternate worlds, time travel, duplicates - they’re all standard science fiction jumping off points. It’s how they are used, what makes them unique within the body of a given story that really matters. I think back to Window of Opportunity. When we first pitched out the story, it was very dark and very different from the finished episode. Robert Cooper gave us notes and steered us in another, lighter direction. “This is just like Ground Hog day,”I realized, expecting that would kill the idea. “Exactly,”was Rob’s surprising response. So we did the Stargate SG-1 version of Groundhog Day - and it became a fan favorite! Why? Because people who watched it were less hung up on the similarities of what had come before, and more intereseted in what made this particular situation unique to OUR characters. So, yes, duplicates had been done before in scifi. The challenge was to discover that made this story personal to Atlantis…
Let’s break it down -
THE TEASE
Trying to get the gate up and running/An unidentified object hit’s the city: This opening scene was very different in the first draft. Originally, it went something like this -
McKay: “We've been able to eliminate a number of possible causes - including my streamlining program - and I'm confident we're making progress and should have things up and running in no time.”
Weir (O.S.): “Great.”
All glance over at - a very much business-as-usual Weir who steps in an surveys their progress.
Weir: “It’ll nice to finally have things back to normal around here.”
And we END TEASE off a hopeful Weir.
But when I received notes on the first draft, Marty G. pointed out that having Weir appear right off the bat pretty much blows the mystery from the get-go (Of course this was assuming the SciFi promo and Gateworld spoilers wouldn’t do it for us even before the episode aired. Silly, silly us.) Better to save Weir’s reveal for later in the episode and build the weirdness. I thanked Martin for what, it turns out, was a great note - while silently cursing him for not having given me the note at the outline stage since it would have saved me a sizable rewrite.
And so, I rewrote the scene to include the crashing of the unidentified object. As Sheppard and co. go to check it out, we END TEASE. Except…it made for a mighty weak tease. And so, when it came time for the producer edits, I moved the end of tease. I remember being in the editing suite going “No, we can’t end it here. Nope, we can’t end it here.” Finally, we found the perfect spot - McKay’s nanite discovery. However, moving scenes from the first act into the tease meant it would necessitate our moving the Act I break (since each act must run a minimum of five minutes) which would force us to rethink the Act II break which would influence the Act III break and so on.
ACT ONE
Discover the drone: In the original version, the drone doesn’t hit the city. Short range sensors track its descent into waters close to the city, giving rise to this exchange -
#Weir: “Feeling up to a recovery mission?”
Sheppard: “Am I!”
Zelenka: “But - you'll never find it.”
McKay: “Its energy signature should lead you right to it.”
Zelenka: “Six thousand feet under the ocean's surface? It's too dangerous.”
Sheppard: “Been there. Done that.”
To give the revised tease more weight, I moved the drone to the end of the opening scene and had it come down in the city - specifically, the reading room, which allowed me to get in my favorite line of the scene, McKay’s “#Thank God it hit the reading library or someone really could've gotten hurt.” Sad but true.
Lorne questions Sheppard: As at least one of you pointed out - Lorne’s reaction is kind of bizarre. Why does he want McKay focusing on the gate instead? The answer is obvious once you know what is really going on. They have recognized the probe for what it really is and don’t want McKay to uncover the truth. Better to have their fellow replicator, Zelenka, do the analysis and redirect them.
McKay discovers of the nanite code: And so, after much consideration, this became the new and improved end of tease,
McKay reports on his discovery: A fairly straightforward scene except that, in the original version, McKay and Zelenka report to Weir.
We discover the drone and McKay’s laptop have been destroyed: So the art department came in with a concept drawing of the partially destroyed table. It looked fabulous except for the fact that it was still standing in the picture. “Great,”I said. “So long as it’s not actually standing in the episode.” You’d assume an explosion would undoubtedly knock that table over. Right? Wrong. When I watched the dailies, the table was standing - exactly as pictured in the concept drawing. I chocked it up to a precise, localized explosion.
McKay confides his suspicions to Sheppard: In the original draft, we went straight from the last scene to the Sheppard-Ronon scene. In ensuing drafts, this little scene was added to build up the sense that “something aint quite right here”. McKay may sound a little paranoid here but in the next scene, when Ronon echoes the same suspicions…
Sheppard and Ronon spar and confide in one another: From a scripting point of view, a fairly straightforward scene, but from an editing point of view a really pain in the ass as we tried our best to hide Joe’s stunt double by using alternate takes and trimming frames off the end of shots to conceal his identity. It works fine in the end, however I remember pulling my hair out while trying to edit this particular sequence.
Sheppard pays Keller a visit: The reference to the retrovirus was added in a later draft because someone (Martin?) pointed out that, given the rapid healing abilities he displayed in Conversion, Sheppard might consider a connection here.
I had originally considered having Beckett here while we were pitching the story but ended up deciding against it as we all agreed it would detract from any potential, um, upcoming appearance. If that’s what we were planning.
Creepy Keller and Lorne discuss: In the original cut, this scene ended the first act. But because I had moved so much of Act I into the tease, I needed to move the Act I break.
Keller gives Sheppard a clean bill of health: It felt weird going from the night-time scene of creepy Keller to a daytime scene of sunny Keller without some sort of transition. In situations like these, we use visual cues to suggest the passage of time. Dissolves are a good example of this. Even though the audience isn’t being told that time has passed, they’ve been conditioned by the language of cinema to assume as much when they are presented with a slow fade out, fade in, or both signal. An establishing shot (Ext. Atlantis - Day) is also a great way to suggest a time cut.
The team tests McKay, fill him in: Best Joe Flanigan performance of 2007? In my mind, the way he casually smacks his lips and throws Rodney a look as he brings the knife into view. The actual cutting of McKay’s hand didn’t work as well on the day so we called for an insert - which is usually a close up of some object or detail (ie. McKay’s hand being sliced). The great thing about inserts is that, because they’re close ups, you don’t have to bring in the actual actor for the shot. The bad thing about inserts is that you have to be absolutely clear what it is you want. In Memento Mori, for example, we have a shot of the APB put out on Vala. In a later scene, one of the characters holds up the APB - and it’s a completely different picture of her. We called for an insert and got - another completely different picture! We called for yet another insert and were very clear about what we needed = the same picture as in the previous scene.
Various shots and scenes leading to Sheppard and Teyla’s discovery of the nanites teeming within them: In the original version, Weir is with them. What they discover in the hidden room is a sideshow of failed attempts at creating humanity, described as “mutated versions of Weir swimming in amniotic fluid”. Very Alienesque but, ultimately, expensive and unnecessary. Sheppard and Teyla’s discovery of the nanites became the new end of act one.
ACT TWO
The replicators explain what’s going on: If I was to point the finger at the one sequence that made me seriously reconsider my writing career, it was this one - from the top of this act to the beginning of the replicator attack. There was a lot of information to cover (who were the replicators, what were they after, who and what was our team) and the challenge in scenes like these is to convey the information in as concise and entertaining a way as possible. No easy feat given the complex nature of the information. As I wrestled with these scenes, Paul gave me some advice. He confided that, as a writer, I would often assume too much of the audience. In other words, I can’t take it for granted that the people watching are necessarily familiar with pre-established backstory. There are times when people watching at home will need to be reminded of the seemingly obvious.
In any case, aside from the backstory on the replicators (That they are a separate faction from Oberoth’s group. That they created the duplicate Atlantis and our heroes in order to uncover the secrets to ascension.), the most important point I needed to get across here was the distinction between the replicators and the duplicates. Replicators are constructed OF replicator components. Although they may look human, they are not. The duplicates this faction has created (the team we’ve been following from the beginning of the episode) are constructed BY replicator components - nanites. They have been assembled at the molecular level so they look human because they ARE human. I remember reading a very interesting book on the future of nanotech and the fact that nanotechnology would allow these submicroscopic nanites to disassemble and completely reassemble something at the molecular level, changing their very being. The example given was that of a leather belt disassembled and then reassembled into a steak. It would look like a steak, feel like a steak, smell like a steak, and taste like a steak. Most importantly, it would have the same base chemical composition of a steak and, thus, hold exactly the same nutritional value and have exactly the same effect on your body. So the question that begs asking is - what makes a human human? Surely it goes beyond mere physiology. Intellect. Personality. A soul? In the minds of the replicator, their constructs are perfection - as human as you or I. But to the actual constructs, the duplicate team members in this episode, it’s not a fact they’re so ready to accept because so much of what they are has to do with their identity. And if someone has already lain claim to that identity, what does that make them? Perhaps not less than human but surely less than who they are? It sets up a real dilemma for these people (and I refer to them as people because they are) because unlike Harlan’s duplicates on SG-1, they are human.
Many interesting little revelations in this sequence of scenes, not the least of which concerns the ultimate fate of Elizabeth Weir. We learn from Repli-Keller that Weir is dead, killed by Oberoth because she exerted an unhealthy influence on the collective. Sad news that, from a series perspective, allows Sheppard and co. some closure on the issue and finally puts to rest any hopes of a rescue mission. On the other hand, can Repli-Keller be trusted? Is what she revealing the sad facts as she knows them, or is this an attempt by her to forestall any potential rescue attempt that would rob them of the precious template that has allowed them to create humanity? Is Elizabeth Weir really dead? Well, it depends on which producer you ask.
By the way, I found the new Act II break within the body of the Repli-Keller/Dupli-Weir scene, fading out on Weir’s reaction to end the act and then inserting an extra scene back at the cell to break up the discussion.
ACT THREE
In the cell, the team comes to term with reality: I mentioned we were short and we needed some extra scenes? Well, this is one although, in all fairness, it wasn’t a wholly new scene. It was in the first draft and then lost (for reasons I can’t remember), but I needed to break up the Repli-Keller/Dupli-Weir scene to create the new act break (the original act break was the destruction of the duplicate Atlantis as witnessed by the team in the jumper). I also felt we needed to see their initial reaction to the news that they aren’t who they thought they were: Rodney - defeated, Ronon - angry, Teyla - desperate to make sense of it all, and John - focused on the big picture.
The replicator attack/the pitch to Repli-Keller: The linchpin to this scene is the humanity that exists within this faction of replicators. Even though they, at heart, consider themselves less than human, it is Weir’s appeal to the humanity they aspire to (and no doubt does exist within them) that convinces Keller to let them go free. Again, I think back to Fifth and Reese, two replicators who wished to be human but who failed miserably because the steps they took to try to achieve their goal actually undermined whatever shred of humanity they sought to grasp. In Repli-Keller’s case, it is that shred of humanity, of empathy, that convinces her to let the team go. Was her faction always possessed of this kernel of humanity, or was this a result of the influence Weir may have played on the collective? Good question.
The team makes their escape: And the Seer’s prediction comes true. A future event important to the expedition comes to pass. Atlantis is destroyed. But not the Atlantis we know. Oberoth has seemingly destroyed his opposing faction, but not before they gave the duplicates the means by which to track every replicator ship in the galaxy - something the real Atlantis will need if they stand a chance of stopping Oberoth and co. from targeting human worlds.
The Sheppard-Weir jumper scene: An important scene, partly because it gives us insight into their game plan (in large part dictated by the predictable reactions of their true selves), and partly because of Weir’s admission that she draws solace from the fact that she is “the only Elizabeth Weir out there”. She is unique and, as the inevitable meeting with their other selves will demonstrate, uniqueness is key to identity.
Sheppard and McKay receive a message from Athos: Again, to emphasize just how human these human duplicates are, I have the real McKay echo the duplicate McKay’s idea for the streamlining program. Also, with this scene, the original act breaks envisioned in the script pay off as planned. Weir’s: “Hello, John.” and Sheppard and McKay’s stunned reactions end Act III.
ACT FOUR
Dupli-Weir delivers the 411: In the original draft, Sheppard was much more cool and stand-offish but I preferred the more concerned and confused reaction we ended up with. I love the fact that, despite what he has been told, McKay desperately wants to believe. And even the ever-vigilant Sheppard displays surprising sympathy.
If we had wanted to see Carter in this episode, this would have been the place - insert a scene in which Sheppard fills her in and she makes the call. However, she would only have appeared in this one scene since she wouldn’t have headed off-world and, in the end, the scene would have amounted to little more than a replay of the information we’d just received. Finally, with Amanda contracted for 14 episodes, we needed to be judicious about which ones we put her in and putting her in this episode for what would really amount to a meaningless scene felt unnecessary.
The two teams meet: This scene was a lot of fun and the exchange between the two McKays a high-point of the scriptwriting process. Kudos to Marty G. for offering up Sheppard’s line upon setting eyes on his duplicate: “Oh great. The last time I came face to face with myself I ended up kicking my own ass.”
The Sheppard-Weir walk and talk: In the original draft, the conversation played out slightly differently:
#Duplicate Weir: “I can empathize. Quite literally, a part of me is gone and I can't tell you how sad that makes me. But the part of me that's still here wants me to tell you that Elizabeth isn't gone; that she's right beside you whether you want to accept it or not.”
Sheppard:“From what I understand of all this, you are her in almost every way. And I wish I could take some comfort from that, but I can't. I'm sorry.”
Duplicate Weir: “I didn't expect this to go any other way. From the moment I learned the truth, I knew there'd be no going back to the way things were. Not for me. Not for any of us.”
Sheppard: “That doesn't mean you can't be a part of Atlantis in some way. You can still contribute. Things will just be different.”
Duplicate Weir: “To be honest with you, John, that isn't really the issue. I guess what really bothers me is knowing you and the others will always consider me as less than what I really am.”
Sheppard: “Eliz - look that's not true.”
Duplicate Weir: “Of course it is. You can't even say my name.”
They walk in silence.
Duplicate Weir: “Because it's not your name. Not really. That's what you're thinking right now. And I don't blame you, John. But if you could get inside my head, you'd know - I am the Elizabeth Weir you knew. In every way.”
Sheppard doesn't have an answer for that.
The Ronon-Teyla walk and talk: Again, very different. In the original version, it was more a quiet scene between the originals. Teyla is walking through the forest when she discovers Ronon sitting off on his own -
Ronon: “Was the other you making you uncomfortable?”
Teyla smiles, approaches.
Teyla: “Actually, it was the two McKay's who eventually drove me out here in search of some peace and quiet.”
She grabs a seat beside him. Beat.
Ronon: “I can't believe she's gone.” (beat) “If it wasn't for her, I'd probably still be out there somewhere, a runner. She did a lot for me and I'm sorry I wasn't able to help her when she needed it.”
Teyla: “We have chosen lives in which the tragedy of sudden loss is to be expected. And experience tells us that this will not be the last time we grieve.” (considers) “To many, Elizabeth was a vital part of Atlantis, but to me she was more than that. Elizabeth was my friend, and that is how I will mourn her.”
Teyla, downcast, looks like she's about to lose it. Ronon puts a brotherly arm around her and pulls in her close to comfort her.
Ultimately, it was felt that the scene was too on-the-nose and simply repeated what had already been discussed. Paul came up with the twin walk-and-talks which I thought worked beautifully.
The replicators appear: Well, you knew they’d catch up with them sooner or later.
ACT FIVE
On the run: Did you record the episode or buy it off I-tunes? If so, play the Sheppard-Dupli-Weir run from the explosions in slo-mo. See that look of utter terror on Joe Flanigan’s face? Terrific acting you say? Well, I heard that on the day, those explosions were a little too close for comfort according to Joe. On the bright side, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Joe run so fast.
Also, it’s a little thing, but there’s something about seeing Weir hitting the dirt and Sheppard stopping to help her up before resuming their run that I love every time I see watch this episode.
The puddle jumper is shot down while the real team makes good their escape: The question I’ve seen asked is “Why did all of the duplicates sacrifice themselves in the puddle jumper?” The answer is: because they didn’t think they’d necessarily be sacrificing themselves. Although their intention was to draw the replicators away from the gate so that the real team could get away, the duplicates were attempting to escape themselves.
The McKay-Zelenka scene: Remember when I mentioned we came in short and I wrote two extra scenes. The team cell discussion was the first. This was the second. Still, for an added scene that didn’t really add anything to the actual story, I thought it added significantly in terms of character moments. We have McKay who is so overwhelmed with grief that he chooses to lose himself in his work rather than, yet again, face reality. On the other hand, we have Zelenka who, in a simple gesture suggests that, despite the endless seemingly endless bickering between the two, there is a friendship here.
The final scene: Closure. I wanted to make it clear that John had not given up on Elizabeth until the very end. And neither did Rodney.
Finally, I’ve always referred to this episode as a tenuous two-parter in that it tells a story but sets up another - in this case, via the device that will allow Atlantis to track the movement of replicator ships and, ultimately, take the fight to them (remember those cool new Asgard weapons fans have been wondering about?). But given how heavy this episode was, I thought it would be great to end it on a humorous note. Humorously foreboding, but humorous nevertheless. When I watched the Day One Mix, they had Rodney say “Oh, crap.” onscreen, then hit the sting, then go to dark. I called up Joel Goldsmith and told him what I wanted to do. And he knew exactly what I was looking for -
McKay: “On the other hand, my duplicate did say they were building more.”
Suddenly: BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP. A whole whack appear.
McKay: “A lot more.”
Off our stunned heroes -
Musical sting and FADE TO BLACK.
Beat.
BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP.
MCKAY(O.S.)
Oh crap.
So, there you have it. I apologize for all of the spelling and grammatical errors (and long, meandering sentences that on second and third reading don’t make any sense) that you’ll no doubt find in the write-up but I’ve been at it for the past five hours straight and am not in a proof-reading mood. And I don’t have the strength for a mailbag today. But, as always, all of your comments are much appreciated (and read). P.S. Check my May 23, 2007 entry for more behind-the-scenes pics.
Finally, I’d like to dedicate today’s blog to our friend Mags. Wishing her well.
172 comments:
Thanks so much for the episode breakdown. It's really great that you're willing to open up and share a blow for blow re-construction of your experience during the process.
Do you ever find that after seeing an episode of TV, then listening/reading a commentary, the way you watch the episode thereafter changes a lot?
Fantastic job on "This Mortal Coil" or as I like to call it "the takeover by secondary characters for the first half".
I really enjoyed the fact that you took Keller, Lorne and Zelenka and had them running the show so to speak for a bit there.
But I really have to take my hat off to your cliffhanger ending. The fade to black followed by Rodney’s “Oh Crap” is easily ranking as one of my favorite Stargate moments ever.
This Mortal Coil = Best episode so far this season. The scene where the original team meets the duplicates was perfect. January 4 is waaaay to long to wait for the next episode (which I have a feeling will be just as good.) Thank you all for a great show!
Hey Joe! Thanks for taking the time out and doing a breakdown :) Cleared up some stuff for me that I missed first time round! Can't wait till Jan to see the second half!
It must have been pretty time consuming filming the duplicates meeting the originals scenes I bet?
I REALLY loved the banter between the two Rodneys. Classic!!!
Great episode which DOES leave the door open for Weir to return... who says she's dead. Pah!
That's a lot to read Joe but I'll take all what you typed in when I have time.
What's on the menu this Xmas?
If that McKay-Zelenka scene was added for time, then I'm really glad the episode came up short. That was a great scene. You expect Rodney to use his work to avoid dealing with things, but you don't expect him to be doing it consciously, or to admit it. Rodney has grown up a lot.
Thanks for the writeup. It's always fascinating to learn what goes into the creation of an episode.
I absolutely loved the way you did the final scene: "Oh crap!" off screen. And the scene where the duplicates and originals meet each other is funny, especially when the two McKays start babbling in tandem, and the two Sheppards share a look. How did I know that the two Ronons would try to stare each other down?
I was a little disappointed that the duplicates were killed (and sad to hear Repli-Keller say that Weir is dead). It seems there could have been a season five episode out of their reappearance. But perhaps you have other plans for the Replicators?
A first rate episode, all in all.
I thank you for taking the time and trouble to do these episode reviews with us. It really helps fill in the gaps and know what you were thinking and intended.
Dear Joe,
Sorry for my bad english,I'm french.
I just want to tell you thank you, I'm so disgusting by Atlantis now, you kill the real doctor Weir, many fans were very disappointed. we thought she's alive and she goes back in season 5. thanks to you, My passion for Atlantis is over. why do you kill you all of your doctors in your show??
I'm sure you didn't select my comment but i just want to telle you that. thank you for three good season with Weir. your work is really good for season 4 but without Weir, it's really no sens
If we had wanted to see Carter in this episode, this would have been the place - insert a scene in which Sheppard fills her in and she makes the call....
That's exactly the problem I had with Weir during the later half of season 2 and during s3, so I'm glad you're not making the same mistake with Carter. However, you've seemed to go from one extreme to the other - from shoe-horning Weir in an episode because you need to include her, to not even mentioning Carter where it would have made sense. I agree that Carter would have been unnecessary to the story, just as Weir would have been had this been s2 or s3, but at least a mention of them getting the ok from Carter should have been there. Otherwise it just seems that why bother to bring a new leader over if no-one's going to mention her unless she's specifically in the scene?
Thank you so much for writing this very-detailed breakdown of MC! I loved reading all of the little insights into the making of the episode. I really enjoyed the scenes where Shepard and McKay see Elizabeth for the first time (great acting on both their parts---their expressions!) and the Zelenka and McKay scene at the end---very touching. Thanks!
Have you ever tried Governor's Choice chocolat? I've only seen them at Zellers. They are Swiss chocolate. The pralines and truffles IMO are to die for. The variety ones are quite nice and the Toblerone versions are edible if you have strong teeth. I'm not a chocoholic like you are but for the most part quite enjoyed the ones I've tried and was curious for your opinion about them.
My condolances to Mags. I wish there were words that could make the pain less, but I have yet to see that to be the case. Just know you're not alone in your grief.
Mr. M. wonderful breakdown on TMC. I guessed one of the two scenes at least, and it was interesting seeing the reasoning behind the additions. As well as the changes from original concept to finished product.
I do beg to differ with Joe F's expressions(having followed your advice there). I'd say the man looks....intent, consistant with a man who feels he really is running for his life. Still, fun stuff.
Any indication on which producer's view of Weir's fate will turn out to be the right one? While I dont want to see Weir come back as if nothing has happened, I do hope to see her in some recurring role. The opportunities opened up by the whole replicator angle have me really hoping to see Ms. H have a chance to expand on her presentation of the character.
Thanks again for providing a daily dose of entertainment and education on things Atlantean and on other topics. And I do hope we get to hear from Baron Destructo in the near future.
The scene between Radek and Rodney at the end is one of the best in the episode. If that character moment sprang into being because you were running short, I hope you have more such shortages.
That plus the following scene between John and Rodney were worth waiting for. I do enjoy the character moments
Is it unusal for those last minute adds to end up being among the strongest moments in an episode?
hurray, thanks muchly for doing the episode breakdown, it was a great read!
also ignore the people comparing it to sg1 the tin man and double jeapody.. i mean come on.. those were old episodes
and in sci fi nothing is massively unique after tons of episodes
Thank you for the episode breakdown, it was a much needed read between studying periods. I really, really liked this episode and it did raise a lot of questions about whether or not repli-keller was telling the truth about Weir's death, we saw replicators actually studying the team's humanity in hopes to use their findings for their own ascension, we saw more replicator ships and now have a means to track them. I loved the last scene of the episode and mckay's reaction to the amount of ships out there.
Oberoth "killing his own kind" was interesting. Will this be the last time we see such replicators?
Farscapefan said: So SHUT UP.
Good God you always manage to prove how completely laughable you are don't you.
By the way, nice of you to dedicate this blog to Mags. xxx
My condolences and best wishes to Mags's family and friends.
Hint... copy and paste the text into wordpad.. makes for much easier reading! I did and it makes a difference :)
This episode was just fabulous. It's been said before, but bears repeating: this whole season has been chart-topping. Character growth, humor, and action, all top-notch.
And someone elsewhere pointed out the excellent continuity (I love the show, but continuity isn't always the strongest point, no offense intended--*I* wouldn't want to keep up with 14 combined seasons of "stuff"!) of having the duplicates not know about the missing Athosians. Great work there!
Overall? It may be one of the shortest breaks so far, but I'll be on the edge of my seat until it's back. Thanks.
Farscapefan said: So SHUT UP.
I unfairly did not put any context to my last comment so let me clarify - As I read Farscapefan's recent reply I started to agree and felt there was a point being made then, in typical fashion, the true personality comes through with the "So SHUT UP" and in caps no less to emphasize the venom with which she speaks to those who disagree with her opinions (harkens back to the "go to hells" and other oh-so-mature retorts Farscapefan is known for).
Farscapefan you lost me with this little diddy at the end of the post because it just proves how laughable you are and to take you seriously is impossible.
Joe, thank you very much for the breakdown. It provided a small glimpse into the amount of work y'all put into each episode and the story arcs.
Intentional or not, I also appreciate the character building and bonding moments that have been included this year. I think that they are making the characters multi-dimensional, even more so than the SG-1 characters. Much appreciated!
Hey! The mid season finale was great!
some comment I wrote as I read your blog entry.
- one of my favorite episodes is window of opportunity because it's soooo funny.
- jewel was really good in this episode, but too bad it wasn't the real keller.
- a difference I noticed between the replicators and the duplicates was that, the duplicates were able to feel pain
- it's funny how the team is always trapped in their own cell in atlantis. they should have a secret "key" hidden somewhere.
- am I stupid or is there a team name for sheppards team? you know like sg- #?
- In previous episodes, the replicators argued that they were very much like humans and I thought these duplicates would kind of help them in understanding that point. Especially if the weir who was human with replicator nanites had more replicator abilities than the duplicate was still more human to them than the duplicate. It just makes me think, what makes a human a human?
thanks for the long blog, you're great!
So, BAMSR is going to have Caldwell and Ellis taking the fight to the replicators? With the help of Todd's loyal hives(who eventually leave us out in the cold)?
Was the Odyssey thought to be in orbit over Earth, as it's 2nd last line of defence after the Ancient Outpost in Antarctica?
I posted this on yesterdays blog right before you put today's blog up so here it is again.
Like I said yesterday...I loved the show...one of my top 5 but a few things bothered me.
If the Replicators that left and made RepliAtlantis had the ship-detector program...why didn't they see the Asuran's coming?
And even if for some reason they didn't notice them coming...why didn't they start packing up to leave immediately when the probe hit? It seems they just stuck around trying to fool the copies of the Atlantis team. Since they knew they couldn't defend themselves as the Asurans are so powerful, why wouldn't they pack up and take puddle jumpers if they had to?
Maybe I missed something, but these two things were bugging me.
Thanks,
Kimberly
I hate using other shows as references to Stargate but:
Why couldn't Sheppard tell someone that he loves them.
Sort of like the Jack Kate thing from the end of season 3 of LOST??
I know it could be perhaps he doesn't actually feel that way and won't say it, but wouldn't it make for a nice double cross. No?
Any chance we'll be getting another New Year's poem come December 31?
JM said: If we had wanted to see Carter in this episode, this would have been the place - insert a scene in which Sheppard fills her in and she makes the call. However, she would only have appeared in this one scene since she wouldn’t have headed off-world and, in the end, the scene would have amounted to little more than a replay of the information we’d just received. Finally, with Amanda contracted for 14 episodes, we needed to be judicious about which ones we put her in and putting her in this episode for what would really amount to a meaningless scene felt unnecessary.
RE above: Even if Carter isn't seen, why not in the dialogue say something like, "Carter approved this?" from one character to another with an answer like, "Yes, she is busy with working with Daedalus' new upgrades from the Asgard, but says good luck." or something similar? A mention of Carter doesn't mean you have to show her (at least to me) and I thought something similar was missing from Travelers. One or two sentences is all that would be needed.
I really wanted to say thank you for taking the time out of your life to interact with the fans of the show and unfortunately, it spoils me into wanting write-ups for all the other episodes. The insight into the way the story came to be is fascinating to me and I wonder if you know about J. Michael Straczynski selling script books for all five years of Babylon 5? Between his books and your write-ups on here, I appreciate a lot more what goes into making a TV series, both the good and the bad. Thanks Again!!
Do you think you will take Ronon down a 'dark side.'??
Jason cut his hair or sum such, does it look good?
Did he get rid of his beard and does he look like a guy from 90210??
Jason's partner is a really good actress, do you think she would be good for Stargate in a guest role maybe?
Anonymous said...
"Lorne still needs a first name."
Joe, Isn't his first name Evan?
It's Major Evan Lorne according to the IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0374455/fullcredits#cast
Kimberly
Hey, Joe! Thanks for the breakdown of the episode! It's interesting to hear a bit about the script-writing process. I loved the banter between the two McKays (interesting how Rodney was so threatened by Rod, but gets along perfectly with a Rodney that's exactly like him!). Great episode, I can't wait for the next one. Hope you're having a good weekend,
-Jackie
Great ideas for 'This Mortal Coil'!!!! Your explanations made my questions seem a whole lot less justified. Thanks for your analysis... made it clear you and the staff were thinking about all the possible controversies in this episode.
I am among the fan base that wishes the duplicates wouldn't have died in the end.... or are they dead? I know Weir appears in one more episode this season... hmmmm.
MORESO, please don't tell me the real Weir is actually dead. Something tells me Oberoth would not have have sacrificed her that easily.... you'll flip us fans out if that's the direction you decided (that she's still alive).
I have to say, I absolutely loved the McKay/McKay scene... though it got a bit too much. Narcissism at its finest!
It's true about the comparisons. My husband and I were watching (at the same time, for once) and he said that they already did this. I agreed, Tin Man (the episode).. which was funny since right as they said that, they showed an ad for the miniseries. But despite a similar premise (the episode, not the miniseries), you set it apart nicely.
The "Oh crap" was great!
I loved the episode, I think it was one of my favorites this year.
As you say there are only so many plots in Sci-Fi and I think you handled this one very well.
Okay I’m starting a campaign for equal rights for Duplicants.
As René Descartes put it “Thought cannot be separated from me, therefore, I exist” (Discourse on the Method and Principles of Philosophy). Most famously, this is known as cogito ergo sum (Latin: "I think, therefore I am"), or more aptly, "Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum" (Latin: "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am").
Descartes therefore concluded, if he doubted, then something or someone must be doing the doubting, the very fact that he doubted proved his existence.
And as Duplicants are human right down to their DNA they are therefore covered by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Which means that as members of a group that are not being recognized as “people” in accordance with Articles 2&6 of said declaration SGA are in violation of said human rights.
So who’s with me equal rights for Duplies….don’t all shout at once!!!
Pauline
I think I would have enjoyed this episode more if SciFi hadn't given away the twist in the promo.
The highlight for me was the McKays talking and agreeing with each other.
I'm not much of a Weir fan, but it was good to see her back on Atlantis. I think a Weir-Carter scene would have been good, but considering Amanda's contract, it was understandable.
Loved this episode, best this season!
Thanks also for the review-discussion, these are always interesting as they give glimpses into the process.
Joe,
I'm dittoing the "thank you" for the episode breakdown. As a long-term fan of SG-1 and SGA, I've always appreciated the "behind the scenes" info on the episodes.
Thanks also for the time commitment to this blog, and for listening to OUR rants regarding the show.
I have another book suggestion for you -- "Spin" by Robert Charles Wilson. I just finished it last night and it was awesome...
Mortal Coil was fun TV.
My only problem with it - it felt rushed after the dups met the originals. Loved Shep's line about kicking his own a** and the McKay Squared stuff is classic. But from the time the replicators showed up til the dups are dead was way too short for me. I guess I wanted more twin time than a 45 minute episode can deliver.
As far as the episode being a copy of other SG1, it's not just sci fi that has the same plots over and over. It's all media, songs, tv, movies, talk shows, etc. What makes it worth watching is how the characters handle the situation - SGA does a great job of making the plots fresh and different.
I like Zelenka more and more. That's a problem though, because when I start to like secondary characters, they get killed off.
Thanks for the ending scene - I caught myself giggling today when I thought of the "Oh, Crap!"
Argh, I think I just lost a post telling you all the things I liked about this episode!
Firstly, thanks for taking the time to write up this post, we know you don't have to, and we do appreciate it.
Secondly, I really liked the way the Teyla-Ronon scene played out here, but the way it was shot was good too.
Thirdly, I loved the scene with Rodney in the labs with Zelenka (and Sheppard).
The fade to black and "oh, crap" was also excellent, as was the use of Zelenka and Lorne etc at the start.
Finally, I wanted to ask (and I might have missed a previous post, because as a general rule I try to avoid spoilers where I can, and it was getting a bit too detailed for me :) ) will Teyla tell the team that she is pregnant on screen, or are they already supposed to know by now?
Thanks again, can't wait for the rest!
I have to say this was one of my fav eps this season. The rest of the season has been very one time-ie and lacking in anything that affects anything else.
This one was a great episode. thanks!
ps, poor reading room :(
It's 0250hrs here in England and as you know small things amuse small minds and with that in mind this made me lol..
CHRISTMAS CAKE
1 Cup Water
1 Cup Sugar 4 Large Eggs
1 Bottle of Brandy
1 Tsp. Baking Soda
1 Tsp. Salt
1 Cup Brown Sugar
2 Cups Dried fruit
Nuts
Lemon Juice
Sample the Brandy to check quality (I already sampled it - several times - to check the quality you understand)
Take a large bowl. Check the brandy again. To be sure it is of the highest quality, pour one level cup and drink.
Repeat as above
Turn on the electric mixer
Beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl.
Add one teaspoon of sugar. Beat again.
At this point its best to make sure the brandy is still OK. Try another
cup...just in case.
Turn off the mixerer thingy.
Break 2 leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit.
Pick the frigging fruit up off the floor.
Mix on the turner.
If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers just pry it loose with a
drewscriver.
Sample the brandy to check for tonsisticity.
Next, sift two cups of salt. Or something.
Check the brandy.
Now shift the lemon juice and strain your nuts.
Add one table.
Add a spoon of sugar, or somefink. Whatever you can find.
Greash the oven.
Turn the cake tin 360 degrees and try not to fall over.
Don't forget to beat off the turner.
Finally, throw the bowl through the window.
Finish the brandy and wipe counter with the cat.
CHEERY MISTMAS !
Pauline
I love the episode breakdowns you've been providing us with this season. It was a great episode. And how great is it that we only have to wait until January 4 to see the second half of the season? That six months hiatus of last year was for the birds.
As a librarian and frequent library patron, I both lol'ed and cringed in sympathy at the "reading library" line. Actually, I wasn't at first sure if I'd heard that correctly! But then, knowing how much of a bookworm you are, it made for a funny inside joke from you to the readers of your blog. Nice work!
I would like to reiterate, though, that those quiet, brilliant moments -- like Rodney's and John's (oh, and also Radek's) attempts to come to terms with Elizabeth's death -- will seem cheapened if she keeps popping up in future episodes. Just my thoughts, but the way Rodney compared losing Elizabeth to losing Carson all over again was heartbreaking.
People may not die in sci fi, but sometimes they do. I wasn't happy AT ALL when Janet Frasier died, but the way she was killed in action, and the fact that the soldier she saved named his newborn daughter after her, ended up being one of my favorite moments of SG-1. Let Elizabeth die a hero who saved the people she cared about, just as Carson died doing what he did best, and Grodin died taking out an entire hive ship, etc., etc. Thank you.
Loved your write up, it's always so interesting to hear these behind the scenes stories. Two quick questions if you don't mind, I don't want to know if the original Weir is alive or not, but I am curious as to which producers are on the alive/dead side of the fence ;) My other question is a sneaky way around a question I know you can't answer - Is the Asuran weapon that shot DupliShep a Stunner, or is it a multi-setting weapon (we've seen them stun before but not kill)?
You said:
"It’s how they are used, what makes them unique within the body of a given story that really matters.......Because people who watched it were less hung up on the similarities of what had come before, and more intereseted in what made this particular situation unique to OUR characters."
See, I agree with all of this. You're right. It is how the subject matter is handled that allows shows to use the same old themes and ideas. SG1 had plenty of episodes that were based upon classic scifi notions. But they took those ideas and made them their own. The idea of duplicates and alternate realities had been done tons of times before by every scifi show out there. But SG1 managed to take those issues and make episodes that played uniquely.
I think the problem a lot of fans are having is that Atlantis isn't really doing that. Atlantis seems to take one of those classic scifi themes and then do an episode almost EXACTLY like SG1 did it. Progeny is Unnatural Selection almost beat for beat. The main crux of The Seer is the image of the destruction of Atlantis, but that's almost exactly like the scene from Prophecy were the SGC is destroyed. Doppelganger was, admittedly, a knock off of Cold Lazarus, but not nearly as interesting as it was devoid of all that moral stuff with the alien. This Mortal Coil wound up playing out just like the duplicates story in Tin Man and Double Jeopardy. There was no attempt to put an original spin on an old idea. There was nothing to distinguish it from its obvious SG1 roots. It was just the same story done over again without any significant changes. That's why you guys are getting slammed so hard. An Atlantis episode should still feel like an Atlantis episode even if it uses a similar theme that was once tackled on SG1. But it doesn't. Atlantis already has failed to achieve an identity outside of SG1. Copied episodes just come off as lazy, uninspired writing.
Kyle (my earth name)
Thanks for that rundown. It's strange that the McKay-Zelenka was only added because the episode came in a little short, and it was one of my favourite scenes. I guess that's just how it goes sometimes.
Hey Mr M,
I remember watching SG1 Tin man but I hate to say it that I don't remember much about it, so I never picked up the plot similarities as some others may have remarked!
I like the plot - or the storyline and the way the episode started.
I'd hope that the duplicates would survive given their abilities to heal themselves so I'm guessing that this being sci-fi, we may someday see them again.
It's funny that you should mention the two additional scenes you added because it turned out that the Radek-Rodney scene towards the end was one of my favourites.
I liked it that you showed continuity from Carson's death and to me, it reflected the quiet friendship between Rodney and Radek; ie underneath all their bickering, they're good friends and Radek sees this in Rodney.
Joe smacking his lips when he holds up the knife made me laugh in the other scene actually. He didn't look dangerous, just mischievous.
My 2 other favourite scenes were the one with John and Rodney's reactions to seeing duplicate Elizabeth and the last scene when they see all the replicator ships.
I hope that SGA comes back with a big bang after xmas as I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Take care and have a good weekend.
Cheers,
M
I watched ‘This Mortal Coil’ today and I don’t know what to say Joe. I feel a huge sense of loss, surprising only because it is over a television character but not surprising because Elizabeth was my favourite character an in my opinion the heart and soul of another wise lifeless, explosion centric show. The seemingly permanent departure of Elizabeth reminded me of Lifeline all over again and that was painful enough... I could hardly stand watching ‘This Mortal Coil’
The scenes that Elizabeth was in were just heart wrenching and speaks to Torri’s wonderful ability as an actress. What bothers me the most is the way that she has been discarded and I can only hope that the ratings plummet and the powers that be get what they deserve while the actors go on to bigger and better things.
However, even though I feel totally cheated with the ‘death’ of Elizabeth I feel that the plot was engaging even though it was a total rehash of some very well done SG1 episodes. And while you say name you an episode that wasn’t a rehash I say to you- that may be true but you have to find new and interesting ways to redo the plots. You did not do this.
I wish that the whole ‘organic duplicate’ team arc had been spread out over a few episodes. Not only would it have given us a chance to see Elizabeth for more episodes but it would have been interesting to see how the team has changed from when Elizabeth was left behind to now.
In the end Joe, I’ve washed my hands with the whole farce. The entirety of season four has been nothing but a bad dream- and if the ratings fall to far then perhaps you guys should seriously consider the whole ‘dream’ reset button and take the series back to its pre-Sunday brilliance. Hell- it’ll probably bring back your ratings and get Atlantis renewed for a sixth season.
I know that I for one would watch that in a heartbeat. Anything else is futile and in terms of the whole ‘is she/ isn’t she’ dead quandary that you’ve raised- all I’ve got to say to that is that you are back peddling. You’re trying to appease the fans but it’s too late, the Elizabeth fans have had enough and I personally don’t care about the show anymore and am cold towards it.
I think that the majority of SGA fans should stick to fanfiction where the writers actually care about the continuity of the emotional state of the characters and what happens to them to boot. What most would be considered ‘canon’ is a great let down and I don’t care to see anymore.
So thank you Joe- this is one more fan that is no longer going to watch the show. I hope that you’re happy.
In the second half of the season does Carter have any sort of big arc coming up?
I am one of the few here, but I feel like I haven't seen her enough in the series so far and I hope she has a couple of big center stage episodes coming up.
Wow! I really wanted to let you know how appreciated your blog entry is to me and other fans. One of the reasons I'm drawn to shows like Atlantis is because of the breadcrumbs that are dropped in episodes that fans can then take and make endless theories about to try and figure out what's actually going on that the writers haven't quite told us yet.
This blog entry was like dropping a large pile of breadcrumbs that my friends and I are currently trying to reassemble into a loaf. It's intriguing and fun and we're immensely enjoying ourselves.
I also very much enjoyed getting a look at dialog and scenes that might have happened but where edited out or rewritten for one reason or another. Especially those that let us see more character development. And, what do you know, you gave us those, too!
SO A BIG HEARTFELT THANK YOU FOR BEING A COOL PERSON!
Thanks for spending your time writing your comments about This Mortal Coil. I understand why you elected not to have AT in this episode because she would have only been in one scene, and that is not a good use of her time. But I agree with others that Sam should have at least been mentioned. That keeps her tied into the activities/storylines, even though she is not in every episode. I think this is particularly true for this episode because of the team's interactions with the replicators. The leader would be involved somehow -- particularly Sam, given her knowledge and previous encounters with the replicators, and the fact that she is the senior military office at Atlantis.
Given this, does Sam play a more active and involved role in the second half of the season, compared to the first half?
Thanks for writing this up and sharing this with us, Joe! It's really appreciated.
As a few others have mentioned, for a last minute addition, I thought the McKay-Zelenka scene was one of the highlights of the episode - but there were quite a few very good character moments to choose from. (And I always love team-centric episodes!)
As saddened as I am by the apparent deaths of both real!Elizabeth and repliElizabeth, I really enjoyed Torri's presence in the episode. I'd missed her.
The breakdown is much appreciated. It's very interesting to see the changes that go on from the initial idea to final cut. And if that scene between Radek and Rodney was a filler scene, well, thank goodness the show was short. That scene was just brilliant. It added to the characters, and frankly, I tune in for the characters first, then the story. Oh sure, I don't want an awful story riddled with plot holes and cliches, but a good character moment can erase alot of sins.
BTW, thanks for letting us know that Keller wasn't working on the night shift and promoted, but was a replacement who arrived after Beckett was killed.
I wanted to see if you were going address some questions I had about the episode in your breakdown, but since you didn't:
Why/how was the Gate activated when the Jumper tried to make its escape? Did the Jumper dial Atlantis to give the real team and the others a head start? But that would mean that the duplicates knew the new address, which I find unlikely. Or was the Gate deactivating because the Asuran ship had opened the Gate to keep anyone from using it?
Do the teams always dial Atlantis directly? It seems like anyone watching could figure out the address.
Was the meeting planet New Athos? Since Chuck had to check where Major Jordan was reporting from, I would guess not because I would think he wouldn't have to verify the M34-227 address if it was New Athos. If it was New Athos, what's a team still doing there? If it wasn't, was that the Alpha site?
What kind of hyperdrive ship did the duplicates steal? If it was an Aurora class, how could they not know that Asurans would be able to track it since they had a tracking device in their posession? McKay couldnt find that hidden subspace transponder? Why would the Asurans hide their ship transponders, are they expecting their ships to get stolen?
I presume the stolen ship would have been destroyed by the Asurans when they first arrived at the planet, but there was no mention of even retreating to that ship.
How loud are those earpieces? Lots of times characters react like they all hear the entire conversation, like we in the audience have. But the duplicates didn't have earpieces yet reacted like they heard everything.
Again, I want to thank you on a great episode with some very touching character moments. I hope the second half of the season continues the excellent work of the first half.
Thanks for the insight into the writing process for this episode. It was heavy but managed not to sink, and dealt with some good ethical material, which is great. Having the real McKay echo the Replicator McKay's theory for the streamlining program did bring home how similar they are, however I think it was unnecessarily confusing in the sense that it was shot in the Control Room, just like McKay's opening scene (which gave it the feel of a parallel reality where events are mirroring each other... which, fairly, I suppose it is). The two Atlantis' would be more clearly differentiated if he'd suggested it while walking to the Control Room with Sheppard before they receive the transmission. But that might just be a personal preference in terms of clarity since I had to press pause several times during the episode to explain it to my sister. A great mid-season finale: the scene when the real Teyla and Ronon and the fake Teyla and Ronon stumble upon each other in the woods was hilarious. And I loved the voice over at the end. Good work!
Thanks for the episode breakdown, Joe. It is always nice to get the writer's view on the episode, to see how the story evolved to what we saw. I'm sorry that some of the comments left regarding TMC have been harsh and it's got to strike a cord when they're talking about your work. I like the episode. I'm one of those who were glad to see Weir/Torri again. I miss her character & presence in Atlantis. And since in scifi, nobody really dies - I hope you will find a way to bring back Weir in some capacity in S5. I know some hardcore Weir fans wrote off the show but I'm sure they'll still tune in if Weir/Torri shows up again. I know I would.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the virtual dinner. You should have that again.
Thanks.
Bonsoir Joseb,
Oui j'ai encore mon rhube. Je n'ai bas encore bu «This Mortal Coil», bais, le récit que tu en a fait m'a fait benser au film Blade Runner. Les androides qui veulent être des humains, c'est un blassique.J'étais vraiment très jeune quand j'ai écoubé le film, mais je me souviens de la scène émouvante du chef de réplicants qui décrit ce qu'il a vu et pourquoi il beut être un humain. Bon, y barait que le livre est beilleur (je vais le lire dans le temps des bêtes Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep (1968) de Philip K. Dick,)Bref, ce que j'essaie d'exbliquer c'est que ce qui est important au fond c'est de faire mieux de qui a déjà été fait. On peut bas réinventer la roue, on peut juste la berfectionner !! lol
Bon, je vais retourner dans mes bouvertures et me faire un chocolat baud.
P.S C'est vraiment gentil de dédicacer ce blog à Mags, j'ose même pas imaginer ce que c'est de perdre un membre de sa famille...
First of all, my condolences to Mags on the loss of your mum. Sounds like you have seen her off in style, though. My best wishes to you and your family.
Joe, congratulations on This Mortal Coil. I was surprised when I heard that Weir was being written out - I liked the character. I must say, though, that I think the way she has been written out has been handled really well.
The performances were wonderful in this episode, and I must comment again on the wonderful sets and superb cinematography.
I loved the library line, and the two Rodneys were adorable (Can I have one? Please?) Creepy Keller and Lorne were great, as was Zelenka. (I really hope Zelenka and Lorne don't ever get written out, but I have to admit that as long as Sheppard and McKay stay I'd probably keep on watching.) Ronon's tattoo was dealt with well, and I appreciated the uniform continuity.
A really enjoyable episode - and I'm glad it's not too long to wait for the next one!
Thank you for the breakdown of "This Mortal Coil". I very much enjoy reading your perspective on the series, which is sometimes quite different from the way I perceive things, and it gives me the opportunity see it all from another angle. After reading your and the other writers' perspectives of things, I often wish we could see a director's/writer's cut of the episodes.
Despite the fact that I really hate the fact that you’ve killed Elizabeth, I loved this episode and was very affected by the various character moments, most especially the one between Rodney and Radek. I’m glad that you managed to put some levity into the episode otherwise, though, or I’d have been horribly depressed by the end. Nicely done all the way around! Also, I’m glad that you gave closure to the fans as well as to the other characters in the series; at least Elizabeth wasn’t left hanging out there in limbo and it is very gratifying to know that she died well after having thrown quite the monkey wrench into the gears of Oberoth’s collective, so to speak.
I really liked the way you guys handled the nature of ‘humanity’ in this episode, it is one of the great, enduring themes of science fiction and I hope to see more along this line later this season and in season 5. I had a lot of sympathy for Reese and Fifth in SG-1 and was greatly saddened when they both ‘fell’ and I hope that you will eventually show the human-form replicators moving beyond their origins. As for the duplicate team, they are as human as Jack O’Neill’s clone and I hope that they eventually escape the replicators and go on to have lives of their own, perhaps aiding and interacting with their counterparts. *crossing fingers and toes for that happy ending, but not holding my breath*
By the way, speaking of Jack’s clone, I’ve always wondered why nothing was ever done with that character, there is so much story potential there that was left completely untapped. Is there any possibility we might eventually see a story line featuring clone!Jack? Perhaps in Stargate Universe?
Also, thank you for dedicating your blog of 5 December to the folks down here suffering the effects of last weekend’s storm. I'm grateful that the power was brought back up here in town last night and I didn’t have to run my new generator for very long. Yes, I was bound and determined not to miss “This Mortal Coil”, or to huddle under every blanket I own for another night.
Wonderful breakdown--thanks!
Okay, in the spirit of what you mentioned in the opening of your blog, what is your suggested response to those who would accuse SG of borrowing heavily from Star Trek. Someone I know always says that to me! I htink he watches only to rattle my cage about it! I tell him time and again that Sci-fi stories often recurr and those stories borrowed from mythological motifs etc in teh first place!!
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Royal
I agree with you that there is no such thing (or at least they are incredibly rare)as a new idea in scifi, and I do not mind taking old ideas and adding something. But this covered a lot of the same ground as 'Tin Man' for me.
But I did not mind too much as I actually liked that episode quite a lot. Nice to see Weir, even though I was only a pseudo-fan of hers. For me, one of the best scenes included that Zelenka scene, so I guess I am glad the cut came in short at first. It allowed us to see on of the characters mourn (or more accurately, not mourn) while sticking with the things we know about him.
The other one, I really liked was at the end. Rodney's panicked interjections accompained by those not so innocent beeps and the fade, were a million times better than the unoriginal "to be continued". Kept the audience on edge, without forcing us to view those dreaded words.
Joe, thanks for taking so much time to explain how you put this together, most appreciated. Just one example, top of act-four, "The two teams meet:" It was not only felt plausible, but not awkward and not tedious. Thank you.
You said the Mckay/Zelenka scene was added. But I thought it was one of the best scenes, if you have characters like Weir, who meant so much to a lot of people be written out, you need to show that. THe characters need to feel that. This scene was essential towards that, it shows who they are as characters, and that the death of a beloved person does mean things to them. It was a good scene, and something that was imo, necessary.
These characters are real, they should react like it.
Thanks Joe for your thoughts on the episode. It was great, I loved it. I never could tell you added the extra scenes. I loved it when both the teams meet each other, especially McKay.
Thanks again Joe.
And Happy Holidays To Everybody!!!
Question: Why can't Rodney be Teyla's baby-daddy? That way the kid will be both genius and gorgeous?
I know it won't happen, but I can only hope.
Awesome episode as always!
hi, joe,
i don't know what's in store for the rest of s4 and what you've got planned for s5, but i think it would be fascinating if sam and oberoth had a scene together. with sam's history with the human form reps, i think oberoth would find her a very *interesting* subject. ;)
sally :D
Is Amanda Tapping going to be back next season?
Thanks for the break down of the story, love hearing the thinking behind the writing. That's why I buy the DVDs, to get the extra behind the scenes stuff even though I have the episodes recorded.
Joe,
Stupid question perhaps, but why did dupli-Weir's hand not bleed when she cut it? When Dupli-Rodney's palm was cut, he bled copiously. When dupli-Shep's brow was cut, he bled copiously. When dupli-Weir cut her hand, it looked like her palm was made of plastic...
Also, if we were to ask you, say, if Repli-Keller was lying, what would your response be? :-)
Thanks for the episode breakdown. It makes for interesting reading!
watcher652 said:
BTW, thanks for letting us know that Keller wasn't working on the night shift and promoted, but was a replacement who arrived after Beckett was killed.
Actually, we were told that Keller arrived after the events in "Progeny" when the team first had their minds probed, not after the events in "Sunday". She may have been there since "Progeny" and, from her conversation with Weir in "First Strike", it sounds like Keller was there for a time while Beckett was living.
Anne Teldy
I just wanted to say thanks for the first half of Season 4. I'd have to say that "Adrift," "Lifeline,""Reunion," and "This Mortal Coil" were my favorites, they just seemed to gel the most with me.
I think my biggest thanks though, which comes as a surprise to me, has to be for bringing back Weir for "This Mortal Coil."
I was never a "fan" of the character. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate her either, and I guess I liked her but in a more neutral way. But rather if I were forced to pick, I would have said that Shep and McKay were the stars of the show and the Weir, Ronan, Teyla and Beckett (and now Carter and Keller) were more the supporting stars. I guess TMC changed my opinion slightly. I still see Shep and McKay as the stars but I have a new found appreciation for Weir and what she brought to the team.
I don't know what it is;
[Pick your own cliche to insert here] "Absence makes the heart grow fonder. "You don't know what you've got to you've lost it" but I think TMC has made me realise how much Weir was a part of the Atlantis I love, and how much I have actually missed her presence.
So while I have been enjoying this season I do think that now, maybe in retrospect, there were parts where it was a bit flat for me because she wasn't there. I find it funny to be thinking it now considering how I used to feel.
I try to stay away from spoilers as best I can so i don't know what is to come in any detail but I do hope that the Weir story is followed. I for one didn't buy the whole "Weir is dead" angle from TMC
(Sorry but if a potential enemy combatant who has already been manipulating some of players says that "X is dead" to one of them, my first thought is PSYops. I didn't buy it for a second. Give me pause? yes. But believe it? No.
I hope you find a way to bring Weir back into the story but not as the Atlantis commander, I like the occasional Carter there.
Shame about Weir, I always thought she might challenge Oberoth for Asuran leadership.
Fantastic episode, Joe! Thanks in addition for your commentary on it. I appreciate learning more about all the thought that went into what the episode has to say about humanity and identity. The Replicator arc has been begging for these kinds of questions at least since Fifth and "Unnatural Selection," and this episode and the use of Niam's splinter group really came through nicely.
After reading Jason's recent comments to GW about wanting to take a turn "going dark," I would have LOVED to see Dupli-Ronon survive the episode. After his walk-and-talk with Dupli-Teyla, I couldn't stop thinking about the possibilities of the team running into a Rogue Ronon sometime down the line!
The last McKay-Zelenka scene was beautiful. Radek is such a lovable guy, and Rodney always gives him nothing but petty grief.
Again, great job to all.
What a super episode this was. Thanks for this write up.
Keller was really creepy, and Jewel did a fantastic job. Everyone was just a little off, which I imagine can't be an easy job for an actor, but they all did it quite well.
The Rodney/Radek scene at the end had me in tears. I like the reminder that these folks have seen a lot. And it's nice to see them remembering Carson and Elizabeth.
Loved TMC, think it's one of the best episodes of this season and, probably, one of your best too.
Like most people, I think the Rodney/Radek scene was one of the best - perhaps you should write a series of filler scenes and string them together for a perfect episode ... ;)
I didn't know anything about this weeks show, so when everyone started acting weird I just assumed they were the replicators (Lorne, Zelenka, Keller), but then when they only read 4 lifesigns I was confused because shouldn't Teyla's baby show up? And then the revelation and... wow.
Didn't see that one coming!
Looking forward to the second half of the season and more AT!
"On the other hand, can Repli-Keller be trusted?" - Thanks, a lot for this. It's the glimmer of hope i'll cling too for the duration of the series.
Dear Joe,
Great Epi. Nice, if tragic, but realistic closure to Weir.
Seriously - well done.
It was engrossing, but from the manner in which it was shot, you telegraphed the nature - albeit unusual - the fact that what we were seeing wasn't real. The cloud cover for one being the obvious. But then again, I am a geek.
Had fun with this epi.
One thought - let this be NOT the final epi appearance of repli-team (or synth-team). They could be a nice lantern re: future problems.
*doubts on the posting of this comment, but hey, what comment deserves publication?*
Hi Joe,
Loved the ep but there is one thing that bugged me. The fact that Elizabeth is dead didn't have the emotional impact on my until the scene with McKay and Zelenka, because Elizabeth was there when it was announced. I guess I feel if you're going to kill off a main character I'd like to see it, coz we've seen them come back from the dead that many times it's not 'real' anymore, if you understand my pov.
I didn't believe repli-Keller was telling the truth during the scene, and I don't think I do now.
Hi Joe,
Sorry to spam you twice in one day, but I've got something on my mind and need to purge. I've just been listening to the commentary for "Sunday" while eating my dinner with my flatmate. That last scene ... every single time I watch that episode, someone will invariably question the bit at the end: "Beckett is Rodney's best friend??? Since when?" You know what? I can't answer them. You see, I agree with them - where the hell did that come from???
It's the fairly universal view amongst friends who watch that Sheppard is McKay's best friend - after all, didn't they spend hours each night for a couple of years playing that video game? The bickering & banter between the two certainly speaks of a closer relationship than any behaviour exhibited between Rodney and Carson. Did confusion arise from the friendship between Paul MacGillion & David Hewlett? Because honestly, that statement of Carson being Rodney's best friend has stunned everyone I've watched it with.
Oh, well. Got that off my chest.
And because I forgot to say earlier: Thanks for the episode run-through above. I love behind-the-scenes stuff.
Salut Joseph =)
Encors une belle journée qui commence!=D
Waou génial ce petit résumer de "This Mortal Coil" Je suis trés impatiente de le voir!
Merci pour les photos =)
Sayer! nous avons une nouvelle MIss France! Elle est magnifique!
Voici une photo:
http://www.imedias.biz/television/actualite-miss-reunion-elue-miss-france-2008-photo-15070.php
SUPERBE!!
A oui, cencernant le concour que je fait sur mon blog, je vous demanderez simplement de me dire un chiffre entre 1 et 41 pour élire le gagnant de mon jeux,donc:
Pouvez vous me dire un chiffre entre 1 et 41?
S'il vous plait c'est trés important!
Bon ji vais, je reviendrais ce soir, Kisou Kisou, a ce soir <3
Hi Joe! Pretty good episode. I liked how we saw the team's different reactions to their clones, although I would've liked to see Teyla interacting with hers more.
One question: do the boys know that Teyla's pregnant? Or are they still oblivious? (And by oblivious I mean completely blind.)
Hey Joe
Wow, another great episode. Thank you for doing such a wonderful job with this. Also, I love the breakdown that you gave because the little insights make me appreciate the finished product even more. It really did start out as a seemingly normal day and the first inkling i got that anything was wrong was only when we saw Lorne’s reaction. After that, I thought maybe the team had been captured by the Replicators and were having their minds probed or something but I like what you came up with much better :D [Of course now I’m kicking myself for being a bad fan because I didn’t even click until the reveal that the teams were wearing the old uniforms. I am truly ashamed :D]
Overall, four scenes really stood out for me in this episode, in the fact that they made me squeal and jump for joy. The first is the moment when the real John and Rodney see Dupli-Elizabeth for the first time. ‘Hello John’ was perfect. Then there was the scene where the real team meet their duplicates just for sheer fun value. Sheppard’s line was hilarious but nothing can top Mckay squared. Because that exchange my friend was pure Rodney and absolute gold! And then the end sequence with the Replicator ship multiplying and the off screen ‘oh crap’. Very well played, ending us off on a good note [but January is still too far away, is there anything you can do about that? Shorten the month maybe? I’m sure you have that sort of power :D]
But if I had to pick one scene for the sheer love I have for it, it would have to be the Mckay/Radek scene at the end. Thank god the episode came in under or we would have missed this and that would be sad. This is such a good character moment for Mckay but also for their friendship and Zelenka. The whole thing is just absolute love.
Ok so that is the joyful gushing praise over with. Now I have some serious questions for you, Joe.
1) This might just be me being nit-picky but why the hell didn’t Major Jordan (?) on New Athos not just shoot the duplicates on sight? He knows that they are not who they appear to be, and given past experience some action should have been taken. What, did they just convince him that ‘we are replicator made copies of the real team but hey we mean no harm, pinky swear’? I know it would have killed the superb reveal but it’s just the kind of thing that niggles at your (my) mind. I want to believe you considered this but decided that fans would not be annoying enough to care (in which case you especially should know better. We are always as annoying as you think we could be :D ) But did you? And if so what solution did you come up with, theoretically, so the scene could play out like it did?
2) Have the hair department decided that Rodney’s hair should look more like Sheppard’s? Because in the meet and greet scene the hair was looking decidedly Flan- like. Enquiring minds need to know.
That is all (finally). Take care and have a great Sunday. I am on the other side of the bloody world and so have work instead, oh woe :D
Awesome, thank you for the breakdown of the show Joe! (parroting so many previous posters above) For being an added scene, the conversation between McKay and Zelenka was actually one of the finest from the whole episode, in my opinion. Also, I thought you wrote the explanation dialogue beautifully and it flowed wonderfully.
Quick question, did our repli-team really die there in the end?
Also, you described the difference between the replicators and the nanite replicates as the replicators being made out of replicator components while the nanite replicates are made by replicator components. So just to get this right in my head, what are the replicator components made out of? They DO involve nanites, right? Also, for the nanite replicators, are we then to understand that the nanites used human tissue to completely reconstruct the human bodies? Is the distinction that the replicator nanites formed their bodies out of non-cellular components while the nanite replicates formed their bodies out of cellular components? Sorry if that was a bit convoluted! Thanks again for the great post!
Thank you so much for the break down of TMC. I can't express how much I enjoyed reading it, and how fascinated I was by learning of the thought processes behind it all.
I didn't think it was really like Tin Man, and honestly believe the constant SG1 comparisons made by a few are tedious, to say the least.
Nothing in scifi is truly original, it's the execution of the basic premise which is the important thing to me. TMC was well crafted and an entertaining episode. As a viewer, what more can I ask for, other than to be entertained? It wasn't something we've seen on SGA before, and I, for one, relished that.
I don't know where Weir's next appearance will be, but I do hope fans won't be left in suspense over her fate. I, for one, like closure, and don't like to be left not knowing the fate of characters. Yes, that's my problem, I know, but it leaves me feeling a little frustrated.
I well understand the reason you didn't include Carter in this episode, but I did miss her. I'm surprised by how much I feel she fits into Atlantis, because as much as I loved her in SG1, I just didn't know she was going to fit so seamlessly into my favourite show, but for me, she's just perfect in Atlantis.
I need to see her more in command, and involved in the plots more, though, as I said, I know Amanda was only contracted for 14 episodes, so I do have sympathy here. I would have felt happier with a mention of Carter, but I do know time is short in scripts etc.
One question. What did the gun that repli Sheppard was shot with do? Did it kill him, or was it some sort of stunner?
Anonymous said...
In the second half of the season does Carter have any sort of big arc coming up?
I am one of the few here, but I feel like I haven't seen her enough in the series so far and I hope she has a couple of big center stage episodes coming up.
Me too.
J'espère aussi que Carter aura un rôle un peu plus important dans la 2e partie de saison et pourquoi pas dans la saison 5. Ce personnage est tellement intéressant et il y tellement de possibilités à exploiter avec elle.
Très bon épisode cela dit, ravie d'avoir pu revoir Elisabeth.
Hi Joe,
Just wanted to chime in from down under and congratulate you and all the gang for putting up such a consistently awesome season so far... heck if you guys keep it up like this there's no reason you can't make season 10.
Looking forward to seeing how it all pans out for the second half... and don't forget to bring back Ford! (maybe in season 6, eh?)
This mortal coil was the best episode of this season.
I liked how you presented everyone's way of mourning Elizabeth. I love the Shep-McKay and McKay-Zelenka scene. Wonderful acting, lots of emotion, but at the same time, it was so sober...
The duplicates idea was very smart and well done, it wasn't "like this episode", or "like that episode", to me. However I was sad to see that they are all dead.
About the "is Weir dead" question... Well technically, there is always a way to bring her back, because even if Repli-Keller was not lying, she is now in the Replicator collective. It would be interesting to see another Weir-duplicate later, maybe created by Oberoth this time, to play with the team's mind... Torri did a great job at playing not-really-Elizabeth, and to me it would be a waste not to bring her back...
Oh. Jewel was brilliant in this episode. The Repli-Keller character gave her a chance to shine, for the Keller character really lacks something for the moment...
Mags, if by chance you read this, I'd like to offer you my condolences. I hope for all the best for you and your family, as you move on with your lives.
Joe, like most others have already said, thanks so much for taking the time (and energy) to post the breakdown for us. We're very lucky to be given so much knowledge of the scriptwriting process, along with insights concerning other facets of a show's production.
I know you've addressed this issue already, but it makes me SO angry that some people would rather SGA be canceled than to not have it done the way *they* want it done - while, in the meantime, many of us are enjoying the show very, very much. To those of you with such an attitude: Way to go. Your words achieve a low point of pettiness, selfishness, and vengefulness that I only hope isn't a normal part of your interactions with those you deal with face-to-face.
Again, excellent episode, and thanks to all involved for making a show that's most definitely worth watching every week. TV isn't a large part of my life, but I do make an exception for Stargate: Atlantis. :)
I've just watched This Mortal Coil, and I can see now what has so many fans upset.
You don't want Torri on the show? Well, that in my opinion is a mistake, but did you have to do that to her character? Did you have to completely destroy her? Do you want her out that much?
I'm just .. I don't know, speechless when it comes to trying to explain why you might have done that.
There are people on gateworld who've never been Weir fans who are talking about how she has so much more chemistry with the cast than Carter does.. If these people who have no set agenda can see it, why can't you?
Go and sit yourself down and watch The Storm, The Eye, Before I Sleep... God, anything from season one, two or three that features Torri heavily with the other actors. Go on, watch it. Then come back and tell me that you think she's the weak link on this show.
She's not. You've treated her and her character as though they are. The fact that you can't see talent and an interesting character when they're right in front of you make me worry for this franchise. You need to stop here. Because with the lack of ability to see what you have, and the constant rehashing of SG1 scripts, Stargate Universe or whatever it's called is going to be a crock of crap.
I have to agree with others posting on Carter. I appreciate the difficulties of scheduling, actress availability, contractual no of episodes, that inserting Carter for one obligatory 'go ahead' scene is not a good use of time, but not just mentioning the character in the episodes where she is absent is utterly bizarre.
All the episodes where she has been absent so far have called out for a 'Colonel Carter said...' type statement from a character just to set in context that yes, she was there and yes, she was involved in making the decisions and leading the expedition - that the rest of them just off doing what they want.
Yes, the audience can assume she was involved but it would be better to actually show it by having a character refer back to her decision in some way.
As it stands, it's coming across that when the character is physically absent, that there is almost an embarrassment about even mentioning her name as though everyone's afraid of doing so for fear of drawing attention to the fact that she's not there. A bit like Jack in SG1's latter seasons. Or maybe in this case, fear of drawing attention to the fact that Carter is there.
I actually think you guys are doing a great job so far with S4 and I guess it says something that at this point in the season, this is my biggest criticism and point of annoyance as a viewer.
You said: ...despite the endless seemingly endless bickering between the two, there is a friendship here.
And in my mind that sentence should read "...as evidenced by the seemingly endless bickering..." :) One of the things I love most about the two of them *is* the bickering, it almost always feels like good natured bickering, that underneath it all is genuine affection and respect. Not that they'll admit it, heh.
There were *so* many things to love about this episode, the Rodneys talking over each other, the humor of that entire conversation that wasn't "Rodney's the butt of the joke again" was so nice to see, and I was cracking up.
Loved the "kicking my own ass" line, that was kind of brilliant.
Um. Yeah I kind of loved the whole thing. :)
And the fade to black "Oh crap" was freaking hysterical, I was laughing and thinking "Oh crap" to myself at the same time. Nicely done, Joe. Nicely done.
Wow… what a terrific episode. I really enjoy it. Specially, I love the Zelenka/McKay scene in the end It really sold me the episode. Hewlett is a awesome actor. And the fake!Atlantis destruction. Greats CGI! And, of course, the hilarious McKay/McKay banter. My only complain? (And a big complain, actually) Kill a former main character off-screen. That is sooo cold!! I only hope that this is a fake death; that death, simply, is not fair for Weir. And your comment: “Is Elizabeth Weir really dead? Well, it depends on which producer you ask” is really weird. It minds that still all of you have not decided her final destiny? Honestly, I can’t believe so, because already you have spin half or more season 5.
Overall, the season looks great. A pair of bad episodes (Reunion, Travelers), but with five masterpiece scripts (Adrift, Lifeline, Tabula Rasa, Miller’s Crossing and This Mortal Coir). Kudos for the final of “Miller’s Crossing”. The best ten minutes of all Atlantis seasons.
I have great hopes in the battle scene of BAMSR. I hope that It’s really big!!
I can see how this episode would have been a nightmare to write. I would never have been able to come up with anything that made sense for the duplicates being different to the replicators. Even watching the episode I was a bit confused by that. I had tried convinced myself that it was because they had actual human memories and their brains were showing up on the scans as human. I probably needed the bit with the mutated Weir's but I can understand why you didn't do that.
I think I understand it now with the leather and steak story. Does that mean they have captured other humans/found dead bodies and manipulated their DNA and memories using the nanites to make them into copies of the team?
WOW! thank you SO much for the episode breakdown. Having literally JUST finished watching it, all was still fresh in my mind and you gave me an excellent facility through which I could mentally still see it AND the differences from the original draft. I must admit to being somewhat gutted at repli-kellers confirmation of Weir's death but then my brain went into denial mode and its as ambiguous to me now as it ever was. It was also very telling that until Elizabeth's reappearance I hadn't realised how much I had missed her and I just loved both Shepard's and McKay's reactions, you quite neatly catered to the Shweir and McWeir parts of fandom without being to overt, beautifully done.
I would truly hope that maybe in season 5 there may be a place for Elizabeth although that is purely personal and could make for an interesting sub/side plot, but enough of my ramblings.
Thas has probably been brought up before but I have no desire to read everyone else's comments. I enjoyed the episode - thought David Hewlett/McKay was great, esp his scene where he thanked David Nykl for trying to make him feel better. I did think however Lorne's actions/attitude gave away a little too early the potential problem.
I also understand why this ep was chosen as one where Amanda wouldn't be in. But Carter's the head of the base - how could there not have been at least a throwaway line explaining why they felt no need to discuss her? DOes making a reference to a character (in this case Carter) mean they're IN the script and thus have to be paid for it? Shouldn't Shepperd have said something like "since Colonel Carter's not here, I'm in charge, blah blah blah"
I saw an actor who's guesting in Kindred I and II this past weekend and he said he's also in the final episode of the season. Some reason why that's not being posted on gateworld.net, etc?
Just read an interview with Jason Mamoa. He wants Ronan to go to dark side perhaps because of an encounter with Michael or some other Wraith. He also said he felt the dreadlocks were symbolic for Ronan because they made him special and different from the rest of Atlantis. Couldn't you combine both these ideas and have a scene where Michael cuts off the hair as a show of dominance over Ronan or something like that? Then Jason wouldn't have to worry about re-attaching the hair every time he did an episode.
The Zelenka, Rodney and Sheppard bits in this episode were amazing! I'm really loving this season.
Going back to Season 3 for a moment. Are we to assume you are responsible for the bit in "Vengeance" with Rodney's sarcastic comment to Sheppard, "Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"? I noticed it's one of your favourite movies (er, unless I'm hallucinating). Any other Butch and Sundance quotes in SGA I missed?
Joe, thank you for the breakdown of the script and the missing scenes. I'm so glad it came up short as I totally love that Radek/Rodney scene! Anyway, you already know I loved the episode and the ending, so I'd better stop now - before your ego grows to the size of McKay's!!!
watcher652 said...
BTW, thanks for letting us know that Keller wasn't working on the night shift and promoted, but was a replacement who arrived after Beckett was killed.
According to her conversation with Weir in First Strike, Keller *was* on Atlantis before Carson died and stepped up to the role because someone had to (and then wanted out of the role, though obviously she's accepted the position now). Just thought you might want to know that.
Hi Joe,
Just wanted to say thank you for taking your well earned free time to read and answer our comments/posts. I read the comments/posts a lot but I don't post much, I think this is my third time.
I personally enjoy science fiction, either reading or watching on TV. Since I have to live the reality, going to work, cooking meals (and I hate cooking - really, but I still do it, and it's not because I can't cook, I can, I just don't enjoy it) cleaning and everything else in daily life, I like my down time to be as enjoyable as possible. So Science Fiction is number one for me. I started with Stargate when the movie came out, hoping for sequels and when the series of SG1 and then Atlantis came to be, I felt I was given a gift from heaven. I love the shows, even when characters that I like dies or get written out. It's very sad when it happens and yes I cried when Beckett died, but it's a show not real life and that's what happens in TV land. I personally don't sit down and start analysing this and that or if it was done on another show or not, I just watch and enjoy the adventure that everyone connected to SGA, (writers, directors, actors, even to the cleaners and cooks that you may have), give us to escape reality for a short time. I also love the spoilers, you can tell me everything that's going to happen in an episode or tell me the ending in a book, I don't mind, I will still watch it and read the book, it will only make me want to see it and read ot more. I find that to be a big time teaser for. Weird I know, but that's me.
So THANK YOU Joe and everyone connected to Stargate for the great show.
Also a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, to everyone at the SGA and to all who are posting/reading the comments on this blog.
P.S to Pauline... Thanks for Christmas Cake recipe, I'm sure to try it, especially the part of throwing out the cake and drinking the Brandy LOL :)
Constance
Darn you writing your blog mere hours before I also thought of calling the Keller replicator RepliKeller. I was hoping to start a trend having called her by that name on the Wikipedia article of the episode before I read your latest blog entry. :P Oh well, I'll for my 15 minutes of fame elsewhere I suppose, good job on the episode.
Hi, Joe!
Thank you SOOOO much for your recap of "This Mortal Coil."
The Ark of Truth went up for pre-order on Amazon yesterday. When I pre-ordered, it was #5,056 in Sales Rank DVD.
Today...it's #622 in Sales Rank DVD!!
Woo-hoo!
Best wishes, Morjana
Est-ce que Stargate: The ark of truth sortira en France?
Ps: S'il vous plait, faite revenir Weir
Hi Joe!
I just wnt to thank you the episode breakdown.
The episode is great, one of the best of the show.
I have enjoed the opportunity to see Torri again in action, she and Elizabeth are nice!
But, as a Weir, fan I want to ask you about the 4º episode!
I know that you must be tired of this question .
I´m only asking for a small clue. Will this episode reveals something new about Weir and her fate???
Please tell us something!
bye!
Joe,
After this amazing episode, what about a SGA movie????
Joe:
Congratulations for the episode, nice job.
But I am so sad, because it´s posible that the real Weir is dead.
From my oint of view if she is alive or not is still a mistery, I am right????
Joe,
Do you like to cook???
Today I am in my first cook leason, so if you like to do your on meal I can recomend you an english program called oliver´s twist.
Try to see it, it´s funny and appetizing!
Did the old uniforms really "bunch up under the arms"?
Hello,
Thank you for the breakdown, it's very interesting !
I really like "TMC" despite the fact that I'm really deceived and sad that our real Elizabeth Weir is dead.
The episode was fun to watch and entertaining. I love what you're doing with the nanites and the replicaters story.
Well, now I'll wait the next episode with Torri with impatience and hope to have the duplicate Weir coming on Atlantis in S5 !????
I miss her so much on the show !!
Bye
KMck
Hello Mr. Mallozzie
So I´ve see the episode This Mortal Coil too and I don´t understand it.. By the was I have now a Question as Wraith fan. Do the Wraith help the Humans again the Replicators? I hope for a alliance..
I have see on DVD the Specials and somebody say that the Creators of SGA(You, Brad and the other guys) want to create a BAD GUY character. So you create the Wraith. They should be BAD and evil.. But they don´t look bad and evil now... Could we see more about the Wraith Culture please? I mean how the Wraith lives? Have they Family? Or Kid´s? What they do all the time if they not hunt the humans? How they get her Clothes? Have the Wraith´s Jobs like a architect, dress maker or a shoe maker? What´s with sex? have the Wraith guy´s with one female (the Queen) sex? (poor girl to have Sex with 9000 guys)
What do you think about the progression about the Serie and the Wraith?
Excuse me for my bad english.. I´m be glad if you could give us german Wraith fan´s a answer
Thank you and a Happy 2. Advent
If we had wanted to see Carter in this episode, this would have been the place - insert a scene in which Sheppard fills her in and she makes the call....
First of all, thank you for the breakdown of TMC. I always enjoy reading these. It's like listening to the audio commentaries on the DVDs.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I kind of have a problem with the lack of Carter in the scene above. I don't mind that she wasn't in the scene because that would've been a waste, but she could have at least been mentioned in the scene. The audience is left to wonder "Where's Carter during this crisis?" Is she not on the base? Is she on earth? Did she give approval for the mission? I know it seems trite, but it's bugging a lot of viewers, my family and friends included. They kept asking me, "Why isn't Carter around? Isn't she in charge of Atlantis? Doesn't she need to approve their mission? Is she on earth with Jack?" lol! So, I just said, "Yeah, she's on earth 'briefing' Jack in D.C." And it worked. They're so gullible sometimes. But in all seriousness, in order for people to truly accept Carter as base commander it has to feel like she's a part of the team...that she has final say in what goes on in the base. We fans know that she can't be in every episode because of her contract and scheduling conflicts due to the movies, but everyone else doesn't know the behind the scenes and need this continuity and subtle reminders. IMHO.
Thank you so much for the episode breakdown.
I have to say, I'm glad the two filler scenes got back in because both of them were great. The McKay/Zelenka scene because it was a great character moment and I just love it when we get glimpses of what our heroes think and feel about past happenings, makes for a good feeling of continuity within the series and fleshes out the characters even more.
But I'm even more glad we got to see repli-team's reaction to the news what they are. If it hadn't been there, I would have actually *missed* a scene of this kind. It's such a big thing - to learn that you aren't exactly what you thought you are - and I would have kept wondering how it made them feel. So, thank you for chosing these two scenes to fill up the episode.
Pat
Un petit bonjour de France Joseph !
Joyeux anniversaire à Beau Bridges en ce 9 Décembre 2007.
Bye bye !
Hey Joe,
Any word on the "Live" ratings for "This Mortal Coil" A lot of us are predicting it did better than the premiere. BTW, the music score was amazing for this episode. I just hope the real Weir may still be alive and what repliKeller said was not true or was misinformed by Oberoth.
Best,
Squall78
Indeed, thank you very much for your extensive write up! It was a neat read after watching the episode and provides some great insight into the making of an amazing episode. Cudos!
I once read up that the CGI model for Atlantis is quite large. As such, is it difficult to conduct such a detailed scene such as the destruction of the Dupli-Atlantis?
Again, thank you for your write-up, and that special fade-to-black ending was a great choice!
Every single review I've read of This Mortal Coil online has the same complaint. No Carter. You guys made such a big deal out of Carter joining Atlantis but have done absolutely nothing with her. This is totally messing up the show and the character. At least when she was on SG1 people believed she was leading the team on missions. What's she doing now except not being there when she needs to be? It sucks.
Thanks for the write up. : )
I love that scene between Zelenka and Rodney near the end. Seeing Rodney actually saying Thank You to Radek was a great friendship moment for the two of them.
I hope you get to have a few days off (more then just Dec25/26) over the holidays.
Thanks again.
Hi Joe,
Loved Friday's episode, great job! I think this has been the best season yet. It was great to see Wier again, and I did like the scene between Mckay and Zelenka near the end. I loved McKay's "Oh Crap" at the end too - easily one of the best episode endings in my book.
Thanks so much for spending your time to give us the episode breakdown too - it gives me more appreciation for the show to see what you have to go through to write and produce an episode, all the rewrites and edits and such.
Eagerly awaiting BASMR in Janurary!
(sorry, but i felt i had to respond)
"Every single review I've read of This Mortal Coil online has the same complaint. No Carter. You guys made such a big deal out of Carter joining Atlantis but have done absolutely nothing with her. This is totally messing up the show and the character. [...]What's she doing now except not being there when she needs to be? It sucks."
First of all, not every episode review has had that complaint - read any of the comments above - or even the blog entry perhaps? Joe explained it- Amanda's contracted for 14 episodes, so they have to choose carefully - she would have only appeared in a briefing like scene, which would amount to a miniscule part. Would you rather see her for 2 minutes in TMC or take a full part in another episode? (If I counted right,) she'll be in 8 of 10 episodes in the second half of the season, and plays important parts in more of them.
Thanks very much for spending 5 hours on your entry, Joe. Way above and beyond the call of duty.
I was fascinated about how you were able to restructure the act breakdowns after the episode was for the most part filmed. It seems very complicated and even risky given the director shot it with those breaks in mind. But it worked out great! A long teaser but much more compelling than ending on the damaged probe.
It was a great episode. My one wish after reading your write-up was that it had been more obvious the Repli-team was not on a pure suicide mission in the Jumper. I think it was more in character they'd want to survive, and even escape their "originals" to have their own lives.
Anyway, well done!
This was a very good episode. My wife really couldn't figure out what was going on in the beginning. And I absolutely loved the breakdown.
My only nit is that Carter who saw the future vision wasn't the one who saw the fake Atlantis get blown up. Yes, I know that isn't necessarily against the rules. And technically, nobody on Atlantis saw it it happen either. And so while the seer is correct, he's not what could call reliable, or maybe relevant. Of course, how many times did we get to see Babylon 5 get blown up, using the same footage over and over again?
And I love your little bit of "is Weir really dead or not?" going on. For that matter, who says we won't see a repli-Weir (anybody actually) again?
Hmmm, Asgard weaponary... Very interesting. I must say it's probably time to show some of that Asgard tech.
Thanks so much Joe for taking the time to write about this episode!!! Loved reading it.
I'm glad Sheppard's emotions and reactions came off as they did regarding Weir because in my perception of this show (and I'm not trying to convince anyone else to see it), John finally admitted to himself he was in love with Elizabeth when she hugged him in The Siege Part III and he has been struggling with that epiphany ever since, which is why I'm glad the situation has closure (for now) and why I'm most eager to see the episode Outcast. Again, I've never had any desire to see this angle overtly pursued on screen- the subtle undertones have been MUCH, much more emotionally satisfying so kudos to Joe F also for his (presumably unscripted) consistent acting interpretation that made me think it in the first place.
Re: Major Evan Lorne- Thanks very much for pointing out!! I think this character has absolutely done enough time to be addressed in a scene by his first name.
DD
Holy cow, that's a lot of info! Better watch the episode quick so i can take advantage and read all your juicy backstory.
Go rest your finger-tips on some ice packs, mine are hurting just *looking* at the size of that blog entry!
~ Camilla
(wasn't signed in to my google ac before, am now)
I really enjoyed Carter in this week's episode. I think you have finally found the right balance for her. I hope we will continue to see her in just this amount right through season 5.
Joe listen to Emily and Fondy visit Thailand my wife of 7 years is Thai you will not be dissapointed. Hope you like Spicey!!very Spicey.
Joe,
Sorry for the rant.
You said Sam was made expedition leader because of her military and science background. Yet, the first thing you did was put her in a civilian uniform. In the episodes she hasn't been in, it appears Shep is running the base. It also appears that one of the goals of S4 is to make everyone forget that Sam is a scientist. It makes me think you were more interested in having Amanda on the show(which I totally understand, she's great) than Sam.
I know you view the role as supporting, so Sam has to be minimized to allow the "Team" to shine. But do you have to ignore the characters established traits to do that?
Again, sorry for the rant.
Mike P.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write up this breakdown. I'm especially interested to hear how radically the plot changed from first to last.
For what it's worth, the exposition in the Keller scene was, I felt, really well done. It didn't feel like exposition at all, because you built the new information on top of necessary backstory. So, good job getting that in.
Speaking of Keller, I really enjoyed her role in this episode. As with Lorne, I felt that something was up with her, but didn't imagine that she was the mastermind.
I'm also interested to hear about the origins of the twin Ronon/Teyla walk and talks. Congrats to Paul for the idea, because it was one of my favorite parts of the episode. It showed, I thought, how difficult it was becoming for the duplicates to come to grips with their situation.
Thanks, too, for the explanation of "why all the replicants were in the shuttle/why they suddenly decided to sacrifice themselves." I admit, that was a part of the episode I really had a hard time swallowing on the first viewing, that the duplicants would suddenly surrender their lives when they'd spent so much of the episode trying to persuade themselves that they deserved the same chances as the originals. Weir's last lines about their humanity indicated, I thought, that they didn't expect to survive. Maybe they didn't, at that, but I admit that I didn't make the leap from "distraction and possible death" to the rather obvious qualifier "and we're going to try to escape afterwards."
Like a lot of other folks, I really liked the added scene with Zelenka. To hear Rodney speak so poignantly about how Elizabeth's death is bringing up all the ghosts of Carson's death, and how he feels overwhelmed with it, was an amazing character moment, powerful and so well-done.
Looking forward to the second half of the season, and feeling very grateful that I won't have to wait as long as last season. :)
That was brilliant, Joe. Thanks for the recap and the behind-the-scenes look. I almost wish we'd been able to see the original Shep/Weir and Ronon/Teyla conversations, but in general, I simply loved the ep. And I'm so glad you had that ending set up in such a way; it was the perfect tone.
I don't suppose you have decided or can tell us if there's the chance we might see the Repli-team again?
Real weir is probably dead, or being held in suspended animation so the only thing working is her vital functions and her link to the collective mind is most likely gone in said state
It's the only real way Weir can be brought back, because obviously, if she was active on the "network" so to speak, she would show up to everyone, however if she was overpowered and forced offline, with no chance of getting on again, they could say Oh hey weir is dead, we killed her
Joe,
I thought you would find this helpful in your quest for evil villain status
http://blog.tv2.dk/kyhl123/entry177180.html
Thank you for taking the time to write up the break down Joe. Very intersting.
Mags, I am so very sorry to hear about your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family and friends right now.
dear joe,
1. After the big eppy of BAMSR are going to write off the replicators?
2. I take it the eppy spoils of war will have some space battle scenes in it as well?
thanxs a lot...I know that u might reveal things that u shouldn't by answering my questions but the urge of asking them is just too much after watching ur masterpiece this mortal coil.
la vrai weir n'est pas vraiment morte? je pensais que torri allait apparaitre dans 4 épisodes!! avez-vous changé ses apparitions?
ha oui, ma soeur me manque beaucoup et je voudrais m'escuser pour se weekend donc je dedicase se poste pour ma soeur jumelle qui je sais va le lire dès demain matin!!! kiss sister
vive seville!
En faite joe, bon boulot pour this mortal coil!!!
crazydoc said: "So, I just said, 'Yeah, she's on earth 'briefing' Jack in D.C.'"
LOL! For all the Carter-less episodes, I console myself into thinking the same thing... that she's back on Earth with Jack ;-)
BTW, sorry for posting anonymously. I read your blog everyday, have occasionally posted (politely), but can't be bothered to get a blogger account. Maybe one of these days....
OK, so no one else has mentioned this yet, so I'm gonna.
Joe, you do know that Reese wasn't a replicator, right? Right? You do know that she was a robot, right? Because there is a big difference, and I'm not entirely sure you're aware of it. This is not a small detail. Surely you, someone in charge of the show, someone who wrote the show, knows the details of the story you're telling. Right?
Hi Joe,
is MGM going to finish the job with The Ark of Truth promo pics anytime soon? They owe us promo pics of Vala...
Hi Joe
Thailand is the "in" place to be at the moment and I know that you won't regret visiting!
My Boss has just returned from Maenamburi Resort on Koa Samui (Samui Island) and it was everything it made out to be.
The north side of the island also has few tourists, which helps if all you want to do is relax and not hear drunken beer songs.
You can book online at this address: http://r24.org/thailanddiscounthotel.com/samui/maenamburi
but beware, there is a waiting list. When you see the pictures you'll understand why!
rob said: "As I read Farscapefan's recent reply I started to agree and felt there was a point being made then, in typical fashion, the true personality comes through with the 'So SHUT UP' and in caps no less to emphasize the venom with which she speaks to those who disagree with her opinions (harkens back to the 'go to hells' and other oh-so-mature retorts Farscapefan is known for).
Farscapefan you lost me with this little diddy at the end of the post because it just proves how laughable you are and to take you seriously is impossible."
I totally agree with you, Rob (except for the part about initially agreeing with farscape's opinion; I definitely do not). I was very surprised to see this kind of abusive language being directed at another reader. That level of vitriole was really uncalled for.
I always enjoy the post-episode breakdowns that you do.
I'm glad you added the bit near the end with McKay and Zelenka. It's good to get to see them every now and then as friends. As much fun as it is to watch them bicker, it's also great to remember that they're a team. For me, it was definitely a highlight of the episode.
Will terrible conflict arise between what is right and what is desired for any of the Atlantis team members?
Hiya Joe:
I have to agree with so many of these other poseters - what is up with not even mentioneing Carter? She is, afterall, the Base Commander and the way so much was made about Weir leaving an Carter being made Commander it seems truly odd, and it is annoying beyonfd belief especially from a continuity standpoint - where the heck is the Base Commander?? and when she's not there who is in charge? I guess we have to assume it is Shep but I am getting sick of this disease you guys have (and it was super annoying in SG-1 because it was relied on so much there) of "it happens off screen" and the audience can make assumptions, etc., to have the Base Commander absent and not to even mention it is just weird.
" Anonymous said...
rob said: "As I read Farscapefan's recent reply I started to agree and felt there was a point being made then, in typical fashion, the true personality comes through with the 'So SHUT UP' and in caps no less to emphasize the venom with which she speaks to those who disagree with her opinions (harkens back to the 'go to hells' and other oh-so-mature retorts Farscapefan is known for).
Farscapefan you lost me with this little diddy at the end of the post because it just proves how laughable you are and to take you seriously is impossible."
I totally agree with you, Rob (except for the part about initially agreeing with farscape's opinion; I definitely do not). I was very surprised to see this kind of abusive language being directed at another reader. That level of vitriole was really uncalled for."
Could you please tell your name? I don't like to talk to anonymous.
Perhaps I'm reacting too emotionally quite often, sorry for that. But I do think that comparing kicking out Torri Higginson or Paul McGillion from Atlantis for completely no reasons to adding Claudia Black and Ben Browder to SG-1 is very unfair. It's not the same situation.
Bon je vais au dodo,
Jespert que vous me répondrez pour mon concour.
Bonne nuit.
Faite de beau rêve
A demain
KisouKisou. Vive vous <3>
LOveLOveLOve.
One more thing: the show are not only stories and adventures. The show are PEOPLE, the characters and actors playing them. Dr Weir was heart and soul of Atlantis, especially that she was civilian and Torri Higginson was doing really great job. Without her it's simply not the same show anymore. Military Atlantis doesn't work for me.
Thanks for the fascinating breakdown of the episode. Somehow I doubt it’s in your job description as executive producer to do this for the fans, so thanks.
This Mortal Coil was the episode I was most anticipating this season, and I’m afraid it was disappointing. I understand that there are a limited number of plots out there. The title of the episode was lifted from Shakespeare and even he took ideas already used and reworked them. The trick is to add a twist and I don’t think there really was much of one. The replicator team even (apparently) died at the end, just like other sci-fi stories I’ve seen.
It was great to see Weir again. I’ve missed her this year, but seeing her again with the team just reinforced that. I liked her interaction with repliKeller as well. But I didn’t like it that we got to see a copy of Weir, not the real one. And if that line about the real Weir being dead is true…well, I’m hoping it’s not. If it was, it was a rotton way to learn about the death of a main character. While the scenes with Radek, Rodney, and Sheppard at the end were my favorites after Weir’s interaction with the team and Sheppard, I really wish there was a memorial service for the character who’s been leading the Atlantis family for three years. If the plan is to bring the real Weir back, then it would make that twist even more surprising, and if not, it would honor the character and provide some more closure than simply saying her personal items will be removed. Perhaps it would also have added more emotional punch to the somewhat lacking cliffhanger as well.
There seems to be a lot of passion for SGA here and on GW. Kudos to you and everyone else who created this great show that’s made a connection with so many people. I’m not one who wishes ill for SGA; quite the opposite. I hope it has a long run and best wishes for everyone involved with it. My problem, which is common with any episodic series on TV and in print, is that I don’t like the changes that have been made at a certain point; they’ve lessened or ruined my enjoyment of something I loved. At that point, it’s up to the individual to decide whether they stay and gain what enjoyment they can, or move on to something else. I think that’s what a number of people are trying to decide right now.
Thanks again for the breakdown of the episode and for allowing feedback on your blog. Best wishes and take care.
thanks for letting us all know the process of writing the script and the steps it takes to complete an episode! Loved TMC by the way!!!
Argh.
People, please show that you actually grasp the English language. It's "ditty", not "diddy".
Thanks so much for the breakdown, and also for the episode because it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Also that has to be the best episode ending ever.
Great character moments, humour, plot, the whole nine yards. I know you said that writing this script wasn't exactly a holiday, but rest assured the end product was something to be proud of.
I just watched TMC, and I have mixed feelings about it.
I suppose if you're going to recycle storylines into a hybrid episode, it wasn't too bad, but it had a 'been there, done that' feel to it.
The biggest thing through, and I'm not a campaigner, so please don't any of you attack me, I found that it highlighted just how much I missed Elizabeth to see Torri Higginson with the cast again. Her work with Joe was, as always, wonderful. She brings out the very best in him onscreen, and it's something that I've missed. He's missed working with her, too, if you go by what he's said at conventions.
It also showed to me how little I care about the Carter character. Pepole are saying "she's the base leader, she should have been there."
IMO, Shep is just as capable of handling the situation, and has an extra three years in the Pegasus Galaxy. I'm at the point where my feeling is "Carter who?" She just doesn't add anything positive to the show, IMO. Half the time her scenes are scenes that could have been done with either Zelenka or Weir. Or Lorne if you're talking military. Why you didn't choose to reward the recurring actors by giving them more work instead of dragging over a relic from SG1 is a mystery to me.
I've also really missed Caldwell this season. If you had to find a new base leader, if you had to go military, he would have been a much better choice than Carter, given the fact Shep needs to stay with his team.
Overall, I guess I'd give it a 5 out of ten. Most of those points come from Torri being in it, and from the amusing banter between the McKays.
Other than that, it was a little ho hum for me.
Please bring Elizabeth and Torri back for season five. A lot of people, having seen TMC are realising how much she's brought to the show in the past and how much she's missed in the lineup.
please see sense and bring weir back for season 5! she is an awesome charcter and there is so much potential for her.
Stopping by to say hello and thank you for the episode breakdown.
On mentioning/not mentioning Carter...like others I appreciate why you didn't have a scene with her on TMC but I agree that the lack of mention when she's not around is starting to annoy.
If you'd mentioned her in Travellers you could have gotten away with not mentioning her in Missing...if you'd mentioned her in TMC you could have gotten away with not mentioning her in Miller's Crossing IMO. That you haven't mentioned the character at all in all four episodes where she's absent and it does become noticeable...it's an accumulation thing I think.
Anyway, otherwise I'm enjoying seeing Carter on Atlantis even in her 'Hammond-esque' role. Terry
Anonymous said:
This is totally messing up the show and the character. At least when she was on SG1 people believed she was leading the team on missions.
Messing up the show? I don't think so. With all due respect, the show was doing well before having her, so I don't see why she not being there as much as you'd like to is making any difference in the show.
And regarding SG-1: She wasn't the SGC leader, she was a member of one of the teams (SG-1). In Atlantis she's the base commander. Big difference. As such her role should be purely administrative. When you reach management level, you differ to all the people who work for you. She's differing to Rodney in the science department, to John is the military department and so on. As it should be. Once again: Base commander = administrative position
Think of Hammond and Landry. As the base commander, Carter shouldn't be any different. And not because it's "Carter". I'm NOT anti Sam. I would be saying the same no matter who played the role (Weir, Carter or any other character)
Farscapefan: "is MGM going to finish the job with The Ark of Truth promo pics anytime soon? They owe us promo pics of Vala..."
I think MGM owe you nothing... If you don't like what they do, you're free not to buy their product and that's it, but they owe you nothing.
Farscapefan said: "One more thing: the show are not only stories and adventures. The show are PEOPLE, the characters and actors playing them. Dr Weir was heart and soul of Atlantis, especially that she was civilian and Torri Higginson was doing really great job. Without her it's simply not the same show anymore. Military Atlantis doesn't work for me."
Would you be saying the same had they brought Claudia Black, Ben Browder or Michael Shanks to play Weir's replacement instead of Amanda Tapping? It's an honest question. I'm curious.
Joe,
Thank you for all the insights and peeks into the different drafts of the script.
The Zelenka/McKay scene at the end is one of my very very favorites of this season. It's fantastic (and heart wrenching) to see them talk about repurcussions and the emotional impact of past episodes. It's little character moments like this that really made this episode sing. Poor Rodney is really piling the guilt and grief on himself this season! Did they send a replacement for Heightmeyer yet?
While it sounds like the scene with Teyla and Ronon talking about Elizabeth would have been emotionally wonderful, I am glad you gave us Dupli-Ronon whacking at things with a stick and being mad that the other Ronon was living his life on Atlantis. It was also great to see Teyla try, and fail at trying to make sense of the situation.
When is she going to tell her team that she's pregnant? She's kinda showing a lot by now! And please, please please let us see their reactions!
I'm kind of on the side that it would be nice for the Duplicate Team + Elizabeth to be a little guerilla force out there in the galaxy. Worm their way out of the Asurian homeworld, do a deeper damage to the shipyards on the way out, steal a ship and go help the human populations of the galaxy hide from the Wraith. Our own little underground resistance. Wow, it would be so cool if they could go deep undercover and learn more about the Replicator capabilities. Too bad they can't shapeshift, but maybe Rodney could mask their lifesigns somehow and....
It would be really cool to see how they, if they lived, worked to carve out their own identities.
Enough babbling! Obviously, I'm quite caught up with the storylines and ideas this season has brought to the table. You all have really put together an exciting ride for the fans. Many thanks!
As a bookseller, I laughed at McKay's 'library' line.
Also, what are you sending me for Christmas?
angelique said...
C'est comme daniel et vala vous savez que tous le monde les veut ensemble et vous faite revenir son mari dans the ark of truth franchement vous saver pas se que veulent les fans ou vous ne les écoutés pas ?
Vraiment? Tous le monde veut Daniel et Vala ensemble? Vous avez de l'éprouve? Le seule chose qui est certaine est qu'il n'y a pas même une chose que tous le monde veut.
Anjirika said...
What bothers me the most is the way that she has been discarded and I can only hope that the ratings plummet and the powers that be get what they deserve while the actors go on to bigger and better things.
Really? Honest to goodness, really? You sincerely hope that hundreds of people are put out of work just because the people who create and write a TV show don't do what you want with it? Hundreds of people, by the way, that your beloved Torri worked with for over three years and is probably good friends with and to whom she would probably, from what I've seen of her personality, wish only success and happiness? And you're quite happy to personally express that opinion to one of those people that you're hoping get fired? I'm sure Torri would be ever so proud and thrilled to bits that you're expressing such incredibly spiteful, egotistical malice on her behalf.
Geez, if this is how you react over a TV show, I'd hate to see what you do when something doesn't conform to your desires in real life!
Anonymous said...
I'm glad Sheppard's emotions and reactions came off as they did regarding Weir because in my perception of this show (and I'm not trying to convince anyone else to see it), John finally admitted to himself he was in love with Elizabeth when she hugged him in The Siege Part III and he has been struggling with that epiphany ever since..
Wow. I know Sheppard as a character seems to be somewhat emotionally-repressed, but... dude! Two years struggling over the epiphany that you like someone?! ;) :lol:
I must give you full praise for this mortal coil. Great episode!
I loved the ending! Fantastic stuff!
I went over and watched it again haha
Keep it up!
all the best
Netty
I loved This Mortal Coil, and the episode breakdown was great to read, thank you. "Oh crap" might just be my favorite Atlantis moment ever.
The continuity is what sold this episode for me though...and I know you said you planned for the McKays to both be working on streamlining the gate to highlight their similarities, but did you plan for other scenes to echo past episodes?
For instance, I thought the sparring scene mirrored Doppelganger, with John needing the stitches instead of Ronan, and cutting McKay's hand reminded me of shooting him in the leg in Hide and Seek. So, am I just looking into things too much, or were these similarities planned?
Like I said in my comment on your entry tomorrow (huh?), I'm busy with finals. Still, it doesn't seem right not to say something here.
Thank you SO much for writing all of this out! I especially appreciate you telling us the thought process behind killing Weir "offscreen", and that there seems to be a chance that she'll be back in some form in the future according to the right producers. Also, love the little hint on those Asgard weapons!
I also enjoyed the extra McKay/Zelenka scene. In fact, for me it was one of the best scenes in the episode and the lines you gave David Hewlett and his performance really gave me a sense of just, "emotional raw-ness", if that makes sense.
So yes, thanks again for this. T'was a very enjoyable read.
*SLUURRRRP*
That's me lapping up the insider play-by-play. I'm a very happy camper! (and I'm sure you spend every minute just trying to figure out how to make me happy...) Extremely satisfying episode that grabbed the viewer at the end (I have to wait 'til Jan, dagnabit?) without leaving that nauseous feeling that I've just been watching an hour long tease before the story *actually* starts.
To add to my joy, as I was watching and rewinding the very end several times, I found myself imagining how that had been scripted! And there it was! I had been debating between MCKAY(O.S.) vs MCKAY(V.O.) as it was in black and over some credits (I think...)
Oh yeah. Happy camper. Many, many thanks! If it's any comfort, the story felt smooth and unforced - even the long exposition imho. I wouldn't have guessed at the effort to get the script out the door!
hi Joe, thanks for a great first half, look forward to the other half of the season, great episode to end the first half. Can't wait. Have a great Holiday and a Happy New Year.
Lovely episode! I loved repli-Keller: Keller's so cute, I've been madly in love with her all season, but with a dash of evil? Wow! And I loved that the duplicates' fate is open-ended: they didn't necessarily die, ne.... I don't suppose we'll be seeing them again? (They'd make great space pirates! *wide-eyed pleading look*)
The bits of humour always makes me smile, like the end of the episode, or that other episode where the savages on the Athosian island popped up eating a lollipop Keller had bought xD
Thanks for the episode rundown. As it turns out the two scenes you added for time ended up being my 2 favorite scenes, especially the McKay-Zelenka scene (seems all of atlantis fandom loves that little 2 minute conversation).
The only things I wish would have happened were a) more 1 on 1 time between the duplicates and the originals. The McKay-McKay banter was priceless. And b) that the dupli-team would have gotten away. (I'm still hoping they aren't gone for good.)
I am really glad you decided to write out TMC in your blog entry. Gave me insight into a couple of scenes.
Watching TMC, it reminded me how much I have missed Weir this season. The team interaction & chemistry was ever present. Dupli or not, the team worked better with Elizabeth in their mix.
Please reconsider bringing Weir back. Her fans miss her terribly in this role. She fills a gap that has not been filled yet. In my opinion no one else can fill it, no matter how much time is given.
I for one, hope that you are one of those producers that believe Weir's not dead.
I considered being sad about TMC, as it just builds on my ten year long frustration that every character in the Stargate Universe who has to make an exit must inevitably die (exception: O'Neill. Obviously.), compounded by my severe annoyance at hearing the phrase "no one dies in sci-fi (they just disappear for a really long time and all the characters conveniently forget them)", but I'm not that surprised anymore. Instead, I'll ask why there was such a lack of emotional reaction from the bulk of the team regarding Elizabeth's ("supposed") death. We had a beautiful scene with Rodney, but the scenes you cut from the script with Ronon and Teyla's grief would have made the episode much more emotionally resonate. A beat on the real Keller or Lorne, or even Carter, who's now officially having to face being the "replacement", would have tied all the characters together around their fallen leader. Not to mention someone offering John some comfort; he was arguably Elizabeth's closest ally in the city, and she was certainly his. Whereas Adrift and Lifeline saw real reaction within the team, when we finally find out Elizabeth's horrible fate, it's reduced to Ronon being annoyed with his duplicate and Rodney ending the episode on a commedic "oh crap".
I'm also wondering how many scenes ended up being deleted from the episode? I thought you posted in your blog over the summer that TMC would see a friendship moment between Rodney and Teyla, but it wasn't in the final cut. I love interaction between these two; are there perhaps any other Rodney/Teyla friendship moments in upcoming episodes?
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr Mallozzi.
I really appreciatte the time taken not only to input into a show that I enjoy so much, but then to commit more of your own time to enhancing our understanding of that bit more behind the programme.
Interesting to hear about thetwo extra scenes.
My favourite line was simply:
"Radek. Thank you"
David Hewlett can pitch emotion perfectly when required.
Hey, I had a quick query. Why do the duplicates have the exact same personality as the originals? I can easily see how these human "clones" have their own personality and soul, but why would that soul be a carbon copy of the original person's? A soul, which is personality, intellect, will, etc., would be seperate and distinct from a person's body. This is all metaphysical, but a clone of someone might be identical in every physical way, but totally different personally, having a different soul. How do you clone a consciousness? Wouldn't every soul be unique and impossible to replicate?
I know it’s a delayed response but my computer has a virus and I am reduced to trying to sneak around at work to get my "Joe's blog" fix. This is the first opportunity I have had to catch up in almost a week.
I LOVED "This Mortal Coil" It was very interesting to watch the characters deal with the fact that they were duplicates and trying to work it out in there minds. I really liked how Elizabeth was back but not the real her and seeing the reactions to that. It was just such a very good episode. My favorite line was John with his, “Oh great last time I came face to face with myself I ended up kicking my own ass.”
Had me cracking up!! Doppelganger is still my favorite episode so far! LOL
I can’t wait till January!!
I just have to say that "This Mortal Coil" is easily one of the BEST episodes out of all the 4 seasons thus far. And yeah, that ending "Oh crap!" was pure genius... it's the kind of ending that you rarely see/hear on a TV show these days.
i loved the episode, an the series as well. but i felt that this season is weaker than the others, i'd like to see more linked episodes with a clear conecction. i have felt the absense of ronon as a char, is mostly shep and meredith all along, wich somethimes is tiring, you have so much characters in the show and coul buil more perpectives of this chars.
I love weir and feel thal atlantis is a little empty without her. i did not like that there was none teyla-weir interaction i this so motal coil, given that thy were good friends, i missed that. Also in the episodes where tapping is not, you coul add a reffernce (were is the leader??).
overall, keep the good work, is more easy to critizice taht to congratulates (if i wold wrote the good thing, i'd problably faint of exsaustment) love the series and hope for a triunfal comeback of higginson.
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